What do you mean by them memorizing the songs, if they don’t repeat them word for word? Do you only require that all the events in the version they heard happen again in the version they sing? Are there audio recordings of their singing? Those should help reduce confusion here.
When you study practical rhetoric, you learn to hold speeches without any written memory-aid. Instead, you use something like the method of loci to remember a sequence of concepts that you want to lay out to the audience, but you do not memorize any exact phrasings.
The first time you pull it off is almost magical, because the benefits are immense and obvious. You have full freedom to walk around, stand in front of the lectern or wherever you like, look everyone in the eyes and ascertain whether they’re following along with you, and to change the speech on-the-fly.
Oddly, it’s a lot less stressful this way.
You remember everything you want to say, just not how you’re going to say it. You trust yourself to find suitable words when you get there. So have you “memorized the speech” or not? I think yes, in every way that matters.
I’d like to tie this into illiteracy. The privileged class in Ancient Rome were literate, of course, but several ancient Roman teachers said that it was better to compose the speech without writing any part of it.
That is, if you write a speech and then try to memorize it, it will tend to be in a shape that’s more difficult to memorize!
It’s better to instead generate the sequence of concepts in your head, like an illiterate person! The result tends to be more amenable to memorization.
(The Roman elites of course still wrote during some parts of the process, notably “inventio”, which is not composing the final speech, merely writing lots of lists/mindmaps to explore the subject)
That’s very cool, maybe I should try to do that for important talks. Though I suppose almost always you have slide aid, so it may not be worth the time investment.
They memorize the story, with particular names; and then sing it with consitent decasyllabic metre and rhyme. Here’s an example song transcribed with its recording: Ropstvo Janković Stojana (The Captivity of Janković Stojan)
The one you linked doesn’t really rhyme. The meter is quite consistently decasyllabic, though.
I find it interesting that the collection has a fairly large number of songs about World War II. Seems that the “oral songwriters composing war epics” meme lived until the very end of the tradition.
What do you mean by them memorizing the songs, if they don’t repeat them word for word? Do you only require that all the events in the version they heard happen again in the version they sing? Are there audio recordings of their singing? Those should help reduce confusion here.
When you study practical rhetoric, you learn to hold speeches without any written memory-aid. Instead, you use something like the method of loci to remember a sequence of concepts that you want to lay out to the audience, but you do not memorize any exact phrasings.
The first time you pull it off is almost magical, because the benefits are immense and obvious. You have full freedom to walk around, stand in front of the lectern or wherever you like, look everyone in the eyes and ascertain whether they’re following along with you, and to change the speech on-the-fly.
Oddly, it’s a lot less stressful this way.
You remember everything you want to say, just not how you’re going to say it. You trust yourself to find suitable words when you get there. So have you “memorized the speech” or not? I think yes, in every way that matters.
I’d like to tie this into illiteracy. The privileged class in Ancient Rome were literate, of course, but several ancient Roman teachers said that it was better to compose the speech without writing any part of it.
That is, if you write a speech and then try to memorize it, it will tend to be in a shape that’s more difficult to memorize!
It’s better to instead generate the sequence of concepts in your head, like an illiterate person! The result tends to be more amenable to memorization.
(The Roman elites of course still wrote during some parts of the process, notably “inventio”, which is not composing the final speech, merely writing lots of lists/mindmaps to explore the subject)
That’s very cool, maybe I should try to do that for important talks. Though I suppose almost always you have slide aid, so it may not be worth the time investment.
They memorize the story, with particular names; and then sing it with consitent decasyllabic metre and rhyme. Here’s an example song transcribed with its recording: Ropstvo Janković Stojana (The Captivity of Janković Stojan)
the collection: https://mpc.chs.harvard.edu/lord-collection-1950-51/
The one you linked doesn’t really rhyme. The meter is quite consistently decasyllabic, though.
I find it interesting that the collection has a fairly large number of songs about World War II. Seems that the “oral songwriters composing war epics” meme lived until the very end of the tradition.
It’s definitely not exact memorization, but it’s almost more impressive than that, it’s rough memorization + composition to fit the format.