The discussion in the comments has been interesting, but I believe I have a simple answer to Eliezer’s question (please tell me if I am mistaken). Consider a society that has a moral idea say, like valuing bodily autonomy, but they don’t give woman that right. They often kill women for the organs to give to men and children, due to an old tribal culture mainly forgotten. Unfortunately, certain rituals and dogma still continue on. One day, a leading public intellectual points this out on tv, and they change their actions to fit in with their true moral beliefs, and stop acting on non-moral ones. Wouldn’t this be an example of moral progress?
Consider a different society that has a moral idea like valuing the bodily autonomy of non-women, but for various historical reasons this has historically been expressed as “valuing bodily autonomy” without specifying gender. Their behavior has been identical to the example you give, until one day someone points this out, and they start expressing it as “valuing bodily autonomy for non-women” instead, while continuing to do everything else the way they used to.
I see. I’ve said that if people become more aligned with their meta-morals in practice, then it is progress… And you’ve offered that their meta-morals might seem or be bad anyway, so it wouldn’t seem to be progress to us. I suppose, to be able to show my progress to be directional and not arbitrary, I’d have to present a perfect, objective basis for morality. I won’t be doing that in this post (sorry) so my point is redundant. Thanks for clearing that up with me.
The discussion in the comments has been interesting, but I believe I have a simple answer to Eliezer’s question (please tell me if I am mistaken). Consider a society that has a moral idea say, like valuing bodily autonomy, but they don’t give woman that right. They often kill women for the organs to give to men and children, due to an old tribal culture mainly forgotten. Unfortunately, certain rituals and dogma still continue on. One day, a leading public intellectual points this out on tv, and they change their actions to fit in with their true moral beliefs, and stop acting on non-moral ones. Wouldn’t this be an example of moral progress?
Consider a different society that has a moral idea like valuing the bodily autonomy of non-women, but for various historical reasons this has historically been expressed as “valuing bodily autonomy” without specifying gender. Their behavior has been identical to the example you give, until one day someone points this out, and they start expressing it as “valuing bodily autonomy for non-women” instead, while continuing to do everything else the way they used to.
Is this also an example of moral progress?
If not, why not?
I see. I’ve said that if people become more aligned with their meta-morals in practice, then it is progress… And you’ve offered that their meta-morals might seem or be bad anyway, so it wouldn’t seem to be progress to us. I suppose, to be able to show my progress to be directional and not arbitrary, I’d have to present a perfect, objective basis for morality. I won’t be doing that in this post (sorry) so my point is redundant. Thanks for clearing that up with me.