Most non-rationalists think that whether doing Y on target X is good depends on whether X would prefer Y in a base state where X is unaltered by Y and is aware of the possibility of Y, even if having Y would change his perception or is completely concealed from his perception.
If you’re going to create animals who want to be eaten (or who enjoy actions that would otherwise cause suffering), you need to assess whether this is good or bad based on whether a base state animal with unaltered desires would want to be eaten or would want to be subject to those actions. If you’re going to amputate animals’ body parts, you need to consider whether a base state animal with those parts would want them amputated.
It is not clear that there is any such base state: what would it mean for an animal to “be aware of the possibility” that it could be made to have a smaller brain, have part of its brain removed, or modified so that it enjoys pain? Maybe you have more of a case with amputation and the desire to be eaten, since the animal can at least understand amputation and understand what it means to be eaten (though maybe not what it would mean to not be afraid of being eaten). But “The proposals above all fail this standard” seems to be overgeneralizing.
There are two related but separate ideas. One is that if you want to find out if someone is harmed by X, you need to consider whether they would prefer X in a base state, even if X affects their preferences. Another is that if you want to find out if someone is harmed by X, you need to consider what they would prefer if they knew about and understood X, even if they don’t.
Modifying an animal to have a smaller brain falls in the second category; pretty much any being who can understand the concept would consider it harmful to be modified to have a smaller brain, so it should also be considered harmful for beings who don’t understand the concept. It may also fall in the first category if you try to argue “their reduced brain capacity will prevent them from knowing what they’re missing by having reduced brain capacity”. Modifying it so that it enjoys pain falls in the second category for the modification, and the first category for considering whether the pain is harmful.
I guess it just seems to me that it’s meaningless to talk about what someone would prefer if they knew about/understood X, given that they are incapable of such knowledge/understanding. You can talk about what a human in similar circumstances would think, but projecting this onto the animal seems like anthropomorphizing to me.
You do have a good point that physiological damage should probably still be considered harmful to an animal even if it doesn’t cause pain, since the pre-modified animal can understand the concept of such damage and would prefer to avoid it. However, this just means that giving the animal a painkiller doesn’t solve the problem completely, not that it doesn’t do something valuable.
Most non-rationalists think that whether doing Y on target X is good depends on whether X would prefer Y in a base state where X is unaltered by Y and is aware of the possibility of Y, even if having Y would change his perception or is completely concealed from his perception.
If you’re going to create animals who want to be eaten (or who enjoy actions that would otherwise cause suffering), you need to assess whether this is good or bad based on whether a base state animal with unaltered desires would want to be eaten or would want to be subject to those actions. If you’re going to amputate animals’ body parts, you need to consider whether a base state animal with those parts would want them amputated.
The proposals above all fail this standard.
It is not clear that there is any such base state: what would it mean for an animal to “be aware of the possibility” that it could be made to have a smaller brain, have part of its brain removed, or modified so that it enjoys pain? Maybe you have more of a case with amputation and the desire to be eaten, since the animal can at least understand amputation and understand what it means to be eaten (though maybe not what it would mean to not be afraid of being eaten). But “The proposals above all fail this standard” seems to be overgeneralizing.
There are two related but separate ideas. One is that if you want to find out if someone is harmed by X, you need to consider whether they would prefer X in a base state, even if X affects their preferences. Another is that if you want to find out if someone is harmed by X, you need to consider what they would prefer if they knew about and understood X, even if they don’t.
Modifying an animal to have a smaller brain falls in the second category; pretty much any being who can understand the concept would consider it harmful to be modified to have a smaller brain, so it should also be considered harmful for beings who don’t understand the concept. It may also fall in the first category if you try to argue “their reduced brain capacity will prevent them from knowing what they’re missing by having reduced brain capacity”. Modifying it so that it enjoys pain falls in the second category for the modification, and the first category for considering whether the pain is harmful.
I guess it just seems to me that it’s meaningless to talk about what someone would prefer if they knew about/understood X, given that they are incapable of such knowledge/understanding. You can talk about what a human in similar circumstances would think, but projecting this onto the animal seems like anthropomorphizing to me.
You do have a good point that physiological damage should probably still be considered harmful to an animal even if it doesn’t cause pain, since the pre-modified animal can understand the concept of such damage and would prefer to avoid it. However, this just means that giving the animal a painkiller doesn’t solve the problem completely, not that it doesn’t do something valuable.