I think Will made my point. It doesn’t seem to me like anything you wrote demonstrated that human choice is non-illusory. Granted that we seem to be part of physics, we can have experiences that make us think we’re engaging in choice, we can experience cause and effect in our different points in configuration space, I don’t see how that adds up to us actually engaging in choosing (as opposed to us experiencing thoughts and feelings of choosing, each of which are different parts of that configuration space).
I’m trying to see exactly where your assertion that humans actually have choice comes in. It’s not clear to me, and the evidence I’ve seen is that cognitive scientists have already exposed much of the free will/human choice experience as illusory. So it seems reasonable to me that all of the human choice experience could be illusory (although the illusory experience could be a part of physics and normality too).
Human choice: why it exists, despite being inside of physics. Intelligence is the decision-making process. This is how our actions are determined. The experience of this decision-making process is called alternately “choice” and “free will”. The causal relationship of our environments to our actions extends from observation, through our mental state and decision-making process, to our actions. If I use a different decision-making process, I make different decisions. This is still entirely inside of physics, but it hasn’t been explained away. It can even be absolutely deterministic, when viewed from a third-person perspective. Saying we don’t have “choice” is about as helpful as anything in the debate about free will
Being part of physics is not the same as being part of deterministic physics. We don’t know whether physics is deterministic, and we don’t know whether FW can or cannot be made out of the right structure under the right physics.
I think Will made my point. It doesn’t seem to me like anything you wrote demonstrated that human choice is non-illusory. Granted that we seem to be part of physics, we can have experiences that make us think we’re engaging in choice, we can experience cause and effect in our different points in configuration space, I don’t see how that adds up to us actually engaging in choosing (as opposed to us experiencing thoughts and feelings of choosing, each of which are different parts of that configuration space).
I’m trying to see exactly where your assertion that humans actually have choice comes in. It’s not clear to me, and the evidence I’ve seen is that cognitive scientists have already exposed much of the free will/human choice experience as illusory. So it seems reasonable to me that all of the human choice experience could be illusory (although the illusory experience could be a part of physics and normality too).
Human choice: why it exists, despite being inside of physics. Intelligence is the decision-making process. This is how our actions are determined. The experience of this decision-making process is called alternately “choice” and “free will”. The causal relationship of our environments to our actions extends from observation, through our mental state and decision-making process, to our actions. If I use a different decision-making process, I make different decisions. This is still entirely inside of physics, but it hasn’t been explained away. It can even be absolutely deterministic, when viewed from a third-person perspective. Saying we don’t have “choice” is about as helpful as anything in the debate about free will
Being part of physics is not the same as being part of deterministic physics. We don’t know whether physics is deterministic, and we don’t know whether FW can or cannot be made out of the right structure under the right physics.