The imagery you’re describing is really interesting. :) Could be a lot of things. If you’re feeling dreamy while it’s happening then it’s probably because you’re getting tired. Try standing up, siting in an uncomfortable position, drinking coffee, or something like that.
Forgetting what label to use or forgetting to label sounds like sleepiness.
You said the shivers are “not unpleasant,” does that mean “slightly pleasant” or absolutely neutral? How would you say your focus is during the moments leading up to it, compared to when you start meditating or get weird imagery?
Body sensations like tingling, shivering, pins-and-needles, etc. are really good places to search for vibrations. It’s probably obvious to you that sensations like this aren’t static, but are comprised of rapidly fluctuating sub-sensations. (Imagine what it would mean if “tingling” was a static sensation. Would you even call it “tingling”?) So, how rapidly do they fluctuate? How quickly can you observe the sensations that comprise them?
I would probably say that the sensations are slightly pleasant, but yet slightly foreign and odd. Focus seems better before this happens. Definitely better than when I start. Seems to fluctuate maybe 10 to 20 per second. I can sort of describe it as something then nothing alternating, with the something being stronger. I can probably observe it better next time if this is useful. Its almost too fast. You seem to be saying that these might be comprised of even smaller parts, since you said its a good place to look. Are actual vibrations different?
It sounds like you may be describing vibrations, in one sensory modality only. What do you mean by “nothing”? Absense of a tingle? Absense of all physical sensation?
Physical sensations are a good place to look for vibrations because there are a lot of physical sensations that everyone seems to recognize are made up of fluctuating stuff. Most people are more attuned to this kind of fluctuation than to fluctuations in other modalities. Vibrations in other modalities are actually kind of similar, except that they don’t “tingle”, they just...fluctuate. Maybe tingling is a good metaphor for that.
Two main possibilities that I see:
1) Your concentration is relatively good, and when it gets to a certain point, it produces this effect, but the effect distracts you, your concentration falls apart, and the effect disappears. (“Concentration” here means something like “ability to keep your attention on one object,” which is different from the typical meaning, and isn’t the same process as concentrating during everyday tasks.) If your concentration was better, the tingling would become stronger, and very pleasant. Concentration simultaneously brings on this particular sensation and breaks it up into easy-to-discern vibrations.
2) You are somewhere in stage 2 (probably the beginning, but who knows), which has random pleasant (or simultaneously pleasant / weird or pleasant / unpleasant) tingly sensations as a characteristic of it.
So, you can distinguish between these possibilities as follows. Next time you get this tingling, don’t label it ‘that’, but label it ‘that-that-that-that-that-that...’, one label for each fluctuation you can discern. Try to see each fluctuation clearly, from the “something” to the “nothing”. Even if you can’t see all 10 or 20 per second, do your best. If the tingling is caused by good concentration, this will likely make it go away quickly. If the tingling is caused by being in stage 2, this is more likely to extend it or intensify it or bring on another round of it, and your concentration may increase.
If rapid labeling intensifies it, that’s good, you should focus on doing that, and try to label faster in general. If you can sort of notice 10-20 tingles per second, you should set a goal of generating at least four labels per second when there isn’t any tingling around.
I assume that if you’re in stage 2, you’re in the beginning, because you didn’t report any mood or emotional effects. You did report some bizarre visualizations, which is definitely stage 2-esque (especially because of their bizarreness), but for now I’m attributing that to being sleepy. But it could just be the way that stage 2 manifests for you, especially if you don’t typically have imagery like that.
If I’m wrong about where in stage 2 you are, you might get a BIG rush or a series of rushes of tingly sensations from labeling rapidly. And if this happens, at one point, at the end of the rushes, you may feel like your attention is much less precise than before, which would be a decent indication that you may have entered stage 3, so hold on. (But in that case I would say you have an aptitude for this style of meditation, and think that you’ll probably get through it quickly if you keep going. Also, if you haven’t reported many emotional side effects, you may not be susceptible to them.)
Do you feel any different when you’re not meditating? Tingles? Weird visualizations? How’s your mood and energy level?
What do you mean by “nothing”? Absense of a tingle? Absense of all physical sensation?
Not really sure. It’s moving to fast to tell. The nothing part seems different from neutral awake mode though.
Your concentration is relatively good, and when it gets to a certain point, it produces this effect, but the effect distracts you, your concentration falls apart, and the effect disappears
This might be the case. Will expect it next time so it won’t break my concentration.
I assume that if you’re in stage 2, you’re in the beginning, because you didn’t report any mood or emotional effects. You did report some bizarre visualizations, which is definitely stage 2-esque (especially because of their bizarreness), but for now I’m attributing that to being sleepy. But it could just be the way that stage 2 manifests for you, especially if you don’t typically have imagery like that.
Yeah I don’t get that type of imagery, plus I was fairly uncomfortable it the position I was in—legs hurt.
Do you feel any different when you’re not meditating? Tingles? Weird visualizations? How’s your mood and energy level?
No visualizations outside of meditating. Mood was kind of bad last night. My head feels like it’s buzzing at a high pitch and I feel like I can almost hear it. Also, another thing I’ve noticed all my life is that my entire visual field is grainy (like millions of pixels or points that seem to change and pulsate), particularly in the dark but in light as well (except if it’s really bright). l always thought this was some artifact of how the retina works, like I’m seeing individual rod/cone firings, or maybe registering individual photons. But I notice this in absolute total darkness too, so maybe it’s something else. But anyway I am noticing this effect more often and it is vibratory in nature—seems to pulse really fast. If I close my eyes the visual field explodes with this graininess. I’m trying to observe it more today.
Should be noted that I take Zoloft and Lamictal in case those are influencing any of this.
Should be noted that I take Zoloft and Lamictal in case those are influencing any of
this.
Before you continue with this, I’m formally recommending that you run what you’re doing by your doctor and get your doctor’s permission before you do it.
Not because I think this practice is (or isn’t) going to be problematic for you, but because I don’t know what your mental health situation is, and your well-being is important enough not to put solely in the hands of someone on the internet.
Also, I strongly suggest explaining what you’re doing to a close friend, and having them check in with you every so often to make sure you’re OK.
The rest of what I write is predicated on your having checked with your doctor and gotten his or her approval to continue.
(If you don’t mind saying, what is the exact diagnosis that you’re prescribed those medications for? Feel free not to say if you don’t want to share publicly.)
So, taking Zoloft and Lamictal probably is influencing this. My guess is that Lamictal will alter or suppress the mood / emotional stuff that can happen in stage 2. Zoloft probably has some effect, too, but I have no idea what.
Let’s talk about your visual field. I don’t know the cause of what you’re describing, and I think it’s common enough, but what you mention about it pulsing is probably different. It might be vibrations. Here’s how to find out.
Look closely at any part of your visual field with eyes open, when you can see the graininess. (Make sure you’re looking at a static scene.) I’ll suppose you’re looking at a quarter. It should appear to you that the graininess is commingled with the image of the quarter, or that the image of the quarter is “arising out of” or “formed by” the grain. If the pulses you’re describing are vibrations, then the grain / quarter is the “something.” Label every pulse that you see, and label very quickly. If you label fast enough (or can see enough pulses) it should become obvious to you that there is also a moment where the grain and the quarter simply aren’t there; this is the “nothing” (lack of visual field where your attention was).
(Looking at my own visual field, it sometimes appears that the grain is there, and then the quarter is there. Both of those are “something.” “Nothing” is when it appears there are blank frames, without visual qualities, that surround instances of grain or quarter or the grain / quarter complex.)
If you can see the “something” and the “nothing,” these are vibrations. If visual vibrations are clearer to you than tactile vibrations (e.g. in the movement of your abdomen), then your new object of meditation should be any part of your visual field (attentional width as wide or narrow as is comfortable for you, eyes closed or open as you prefer), and you should label the pulses with the label “pulse” or “seeing” (making sure to see both the “something” and “nothing”), and label any distractions as well. When the tingling thing happens, you can move to that while it’s there if you like.
As I said, I think Lamictal may suppress the mood stuff associated with meditation. So, to recap...bizarre visualizations, probably seeing vibrations in multiple sensory modalities, body tingling during meditation, other physical sensations continue after meditation (“buzzing” in your head), expected energy and mood changes potentially dampened or altered: stage 2.
The interesting part is if you’ve always sort of noticed the “pulsing” of your visual field but never paid attention to it. Then your situation is more complicated and “stage 2″ may not be a perfect representation of it. However, the advice for your situation would be the same either way, so it doesn’t matter much.
I can always see extremely fast vibration in the visual field, like dozens per second at least (maybe hundreds—too fast to tell). It’s like a tv station showing snow on an empty channel. That’s what I see in the graininess all the time.
Now, though I am beginning to very faintly see a slower but still very fast vibration overlaying all of the graininess. I see this sometimes but not always. It’s very fast—faster than I can label it. Maybe 10-20 per second. In this case do you just label as fast as possible and try to keep up?
The first paragraph isn’t about vibrations. That’s just visual junk. Looking at it closely will make vibrations apparent.
The second paragraph sounds like it’s about vibrations. The rapidly-changing graininess is overlaid by another pulse, yes? How do you know that it’s a pulse, unless you can almost-sort of see the fluctuation from “nothing” to “something” to “nothing”? (In stage 2 the “something” is clearest, so don’t expect the “nothing” to be overwhelming.)
If you can’t label “pulse” or “seeing” fast enough, try “that.” If you still can’t do it fast enough, simply see the vibrations without being distracted, or count them. Balance just seeing with labeling if distraction is a problem. Re-read my stage 2 advice in the post.
I’ll be away for a few days, starting now, so you’re on your own for awhile. Sounds like you’ll be fine.
Ok an update on my experiences: a few days ago I sat and had less wandering and odd visuals, and then I had a strong tingling sensation starting at my neck and running down my body. Like shivering but no actual body movement—stronger than my previous tingling and different. This one travelled through the body. This happened over and over about 10-15 times. I was noting things like happy, calm, excited. It was pretty enjoyable, almost sensual. I was not aware meditating can produce these odd sensations. It’s very interesting. Since then I have had a small amount of that but not nearly as much. Also I am easily irritated afterwards and am now a bit anxious. I am also noticing small jerks and stutters in my breath. It’s chunky when I focus intently on it. Also getting these things where I suddenly realize “something” happened like I fell asleep and woke suddenly. Also today i was looking at myself in the mirror for a long time and then it was like my face looked frightening to me and there was actual fear. Very interesting. I was skeptical but this is producing bizarre effects and I’m bored so I’ll see where this goes and keep investgating.
Meds are for treatment resistant mild depression and social anxiety. But I think the doc may suspect bipolar ii or similar since the lamictal is new. Will report back on this new method.
The imagery you’re describing is really interesting. :) Could be a lot of things. If you’re feeling dreamy while it’s happening then it’s probably because you’re getting tired. Try standing up, siting in an uncomfortable position, drinking coffee, or something like that.
Forgetting what label to use or forgetting to label sounds like sleepiness.
You said the shivers are “not unpleasant,” does that mean “slightly pleasant” or absolutely neutral? How would you say your focus is during the moments leading up to it, compared to when you start meditating or get weird imagery?
Body sensations like tingling, shivering, pins-and-needles, etc. are really good places to search for vibrations. It’s probably obvious to you that sensations like this aren’t static, but are comprised of rapidly fluctuating sub-sensations. (Imagine what it would mean if “tingling” was a static sensation. Would you even call it “tingling”?) So, how rapidly do they fluctuate? How quickly can you observe the sensations that comprise them?
I may have more to say if you can tell me more.
I would probably say that the sensations are slightly pleasant, but yet slightly foreign and odd. Focus seems better before this happens. Definitely better than when I start. Seems to fluctuate maybe 10 to 20 per second. I can sort of describe it as something then nothing alternating, with the something being stronger. I can probably observe it better next time if this is useful. Its almost too fast. You seem to be saying that these might be comprised of even smaller parts, since you said its a good place to look. Are actual vibrations different?
It sounds like you may be describing vibrations, in one sensory modality only. What do you mean by “nothing”? Absense of a tingle? Absense of all physical sensation?
Physical sensations are a good place to look for vibrations because there are a lot of physical sensations that everyone seems to recognize are made up of fluctuating stuff. Most people are more attuned to this kind of fluctuation than to fluctuations in other modalities. Vibrations in other modalities are actually kind of similar, except that they don’t “tingle”, they just...fluctuate. Maybe tingling is a good metaphor for that.
Two main possibilities that I see:
1) Your concentration is relatively good, and when it gets to a certain point, it produces this effect, but the effect distracts you, your concentration falls apart, and the effect disappears. (“Concentration” here means something like “ability to keep your attention on one object,” which is different from the typical meaning, and isn’t the same process as concentrating during everyday tasks.) If your concentration was better, the tingling would become stronger, and very pleasant. Concentration simultaneously brings on this particular sensation and breaks it up into easy-to-discern vibrations.
2) You are somewhere in stage 2 (probably the beginning, but who knows), which has random pleasant (or simultaneously pleasant / weird or pleasant / unpleasant) tingly sensations as a characteristic of it.
So, you can distinguish between these possibilities as follows. Next time you get this tingling, don’t label it ‘that’, but label it ‘that-that-that-that-that-that...’, one label for each fluctuation you can discern. Try to see each fluctuation clearly, from the “something” to the “nothing”. Even if you can’t see all 10 or 20 per second, do your best. If the tingling is caused by good concentration, this will likely make it go away quickly. If the tingling is caused by being in stage 2, this is more likely to extend it or intensify it or bring on another round of it, and your concentration may increase.
If rapid labeling intensifies it, that’s good, you should focus on doing that, and try to label faster in general. If you can sort of notice 10-20 tingles per second, you should set a goal of generating at least four labels per second when there isn’t any tingling around.
I assume that if you’re in stage 2, you’re in the beginning, because you didn’t report any mood or emotional effects. You did report some bizarre visualizations, which is definitely stage 2-esque (especially because of their bizarreness), but for now I’m attributing that to being sleepy. But it could just be the way that stage 2 manifests for you, especially if you don’t typically have imagery like that.
If I’m wrong about where in stage 2 you are, you might get a BIG rush or a series of rushes of tingly sensations from labeling rapidly. And if this happens, at one point, at the end of the rushes, you may feel like your attention is much less precise than before, which would be a decent indication that you may have entered stage 3, so hold on. (But in that case I would say you have an aptitude for this style of meditation, and think that you’ll probably get through it quickly if you keep going. Also, if you haven’t reported many emotional side effects, you may not be susceptible to them.)
Do you feel any different when you’re not meditating? Tingles? Weird visualizations? How’s your mood and energy level?
Not really sure. It’s moving to fast to tell. The nothing part seems different from neutral awake mode though.
This might be the case. Will expect it next time so it won’t break my concentration.
Yeah I don’t get that type of imagery, plus I was fairly uncomfortable it the position I was in—legs hurt.
No visualizations outside of meditating. Mood was kind of bad last night. My head feels like it’s buzzing at a high pitch and I feel like I can almost hear it. Also, another thing I’ve noticed all my life is that my entire visual field is grainy (like millions of pixels or points that seem to change and pulsate), particularly in the dark but in light as well (except if it’s really bright). l always thought this was some artifact of how the retina works, like I’m seeing individual rod/cone firings, or maybe registering individual photons. But I notice this in absolute total darkness too, so maybe it’s something else. But anyway I am noticing this effect more often and it is vibratory in nature—seems to pulse really fast. If I close my eyes the visual field explodes with this graininess. I’m trying to observe it more today.
Should be noted that I take Zoloft and Lamictal in case those are influencing any of this.
Before you continue with this, I’m formally recommending that you run what you’re doing by your doctor and get your doctor’s permission before you do it.
Not because I think this practice is (or isn’t) going to be problematic for you, but because I don’t know what your mental health situation is, and your well-being is important enough not to put solely in the hands of someone on the internet.
Also, I strongly suggest explaining what you’re doing to a close friend, and having them check in with you every so often to make sure you’re OK.
The rest of what I write is predicated on your having checked with your doctor and gotten his or her approval to continue.
(If you don’t mind saying, what is the exact diagnosis that you’re prescribed those medications for? Feel free not to say if you don’t want to share publicly.)
So, taking Zoloft and Lamictal probably is influencing this. My guess is that Lamictal will alter or suppress the mood / emotional stuff that can happen in stage 2. Zoloft probably has some effect, too, but I have no idea what.
Let’s talk about your visual field. I don’t know the cause of what you’re describing, and I think it’s common enough, but what you mention about it pulsing is probably different. It might be vibrations. Here’s how to find out.
Look closely at any part of your visual field with eyes open, when you can see the graininess. (Make sure you’re looking at a static scene.) I’ll suppose you’re looking at a quarter. It should appear to you that the graininess is commingled with the image of the quarter, or that the image of the quarter is “arising out of” or “formed by” the grain. If the pulses you’re describing are vibrations, then the grain / quarter is the “something.” Label every pulse that you see, and label very quickly. If you label fast enough (or can see enough pulses) it should become obvious to you that there is also a moment where the grain and the quarter simply aren’t there; this is the “nothing” (lack of visual field where your attention was).
(Looking at my own visual field, it sometimes appears that the grain is there, and then the quarter is there. Both of those are “something.” “Nothing” is when it appears there are blank frames, without visual qualities, that surround instances of grain or quarter or the grain / quarter complex.)
If you can see the “something” and the “nothing,” these are vibrations. If visual vibrations are clearer to you than tactile vibrations (e.g. in the movement of your abdomen), then your new object of meditation should be any part of your visual field (attentional width as wide or narrow as is comfortable for you, eyes closed or open as you prefer), and you should label the pulses with the label “pulse” or “seeing” (making sure to see both the “something” and “nothing”), and label any distractions as well. When the tingling thing happens, you can move to that while it’s there if you like.
As I said, I think Lamictal may suppress the mood stuff associated with meditation. So, to recap...bizarre visualizations, probably seeing vibrations in multiple sensory modalities, body tingling during meditation, other physical sensations continue after meditation (“buzzing” in your head), expected energy and mood changes potentially dampened or altered: stage 2.
The interesting part is if you’ve always sort of noticed the “pulsing” of your visual field but never paid attention to it. Then your situation is more complicated and “stage 2″ may not be a perfect representation of it. However, the advice for your situation would be the same either way, so it doesn’t matter much.
I can always see extremely fast vibration in the visual field, like dozens per second at least (maybe hundreds—too fast to tell). It’s like a tv station showing snow on an empty channel. That’s what I see in the graininess all the time.
Now, though I am beginning to very faintly see a slower but still very fast vibration overlaying all of the graininess. I see this sometimes but not always. It’s very fast—faster than I can label it. Maybe 10-20 per second. In this case do you just label as fast as possible and try to keep up?
The first paragraph isn’t about vibrations. That’s just visual junk. Looking at it closely will make vibrations apparent.
The second paragraph sounds like it’s about vibrations. The rapidly-changing graininess is overlaid by another pulse, yes? How do you know that it’s a pulse, unless you can almost-sort of see the fluctuation from “nothing” to “something” to “nothing”? (In stage 2 the “something” is clearest, so don’t expect the “nothing” to be overwhelming.)
If you can’t label “pulse” or “seeing” fast enough, try “that.” If you still can’t do it fast enough, simply see the vibrations without being distracted, or count them. Balance just seeing with labeling if distraction is a problem. Re-read my stage 2 advice in the post.
I’ll be away for a few days, starting now, so you’re on your own for awhile. Sounds like you’ll be fine.
Ok an update on my experiences: a few days ago I sat and had less wandering and odd visuals, and then I had a strong tingling sensation starting at my neck and running down my body. Like shivering but no actual body movement—stronger than my previous tingling and different. This one travelled through the body. This happened over and over about 10-15 times. I was noting things like happy, calm, excited. It was pretty enjoyable, almost sensual. I was not aware meditating can produce these odd sensations. It’s very interesting. Since then I have had a small amount of that but not nearly as much. Also I am easily irritated afterwards and am now a bit anxious. I am also noticing small jerks and stutters in my breath. It’s chunky when I focus intently on it. Also getting these things where I suddenly realize “something” happened like I fell asleep and woke suddenly. Also today i was looking at myself in the mirror for a long time and then it was like my face looked frightening to me and there was actual fear. Very interesting. I was skeptical but this is producing bizarre effects and I’m bored so I’ll see where this goes and keep investgating.
Meds are for treatment resistant mild depression and social anxiety. But I think the doc may suspect bipolar ii or similar since the lamictal is new. Will report back on this new method.