It sounds like you’re saying that you can tell once someone’s started transitioning, not that you can recognize trans people who haven’t (or who haven’t come out, at least not to a circle including you), right? Whether or not you’re right, the spirit of this post includes the latter, too.
Right, I don’t claim to be able to spot trans people who didn’t start the transition, but at least for those who finished the transition, I assume that a prolonged interaction would at least reveal some clues. Take, I don’t know, my conservatory (at least 60-80 people I personally interacted with for years, including some of those gays and lesbians from the previous post). Even if with these people I talk mostly about music, I would be truly shocked to find out that one of them was trans all along.
Do you want larger numbers? My father runs a small business with ~1000 customers, and most of them have been the same for years. Even if he doesn’t personally know all of them, I am quite sure that he would notice if one of them transitioned. So far, he has not.
I think this conversation is failing to reliably distinguish between “being trans” in the sense of experiencing substantial gender dysphoria and/or adopting the self-label trans, and “being trans” in the sense of taking visible steps to socially or medically transition.
I buy Bezzi’s self-report that they never see people who have visibly taken steps to transition; there’s no reason for Bezzi to be confused about this.
I think people are pushing back because (of the true fact that) many trans people are not taking visible steps to transition, especially in enclaves where it’s unheard of.
So this is actually rather tightly analogous to the perception of queer folk in the 1950′s … one could (validly) say that they’ve never seen anyone acting queer, but it would be an overstep to conclude from this that one does not regularly interact with queer people.
Presumably, no one in this thread disagrees that:
Bezzi would notice (in most though definitely not all cases) someone who had socially or medically transitioned
Bezzi would not notice (in most though definitely not all cases) someone who was “quietly trans” and taking no steps to change the situation
This post is, in large part, about “the latter category is WAY bigger than one would naively think.” You’ve met them. You just didn’t clock them.
If I search for the number of the trans population, I find https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender-population-by-state which suggests a rate of identifying as trans of 0.5% in for people between 18 and 25. It seems to cite the Williams Institute as a source which seems to me like an organization that’s friendly toward trans people and doesn’t really have a reason to misstate the prevalence. When I searched for information other sources also came up with something in the same ballpark.
At that base rate, knowing 60 to 80 people and nobody of them being trans should not be surprising.
Do you believe that the base rates that organizations like the Williams Institute come up with are wrong?
No. I’m disagreeing with Bezzi’s claim to have never encountered any trans person and to have no trans people in their extended social network of hundreds or thousands. I don’t doubt their self-report re: visibly trans people, but they’re unjustified in the conclusion “there just aren’t invisible trans people around me in my town.”
It sounds like you’re saying that you can tell once someone’s started transitioning, not that you can recognize trans people who haven’t (or who haven’t come out, at least not to a circle including you), right? Whether or not you’re right, the spirit of this post includes the latter, too.
Right, I don’t claim to be able to spot trans people who didn’t start the transition, but at least for those who finished the transition, I assume that a prolonged interaction would at least reveal some clues. Take, I don’t know, my conservatory (at least 60-80 people I personally interacted with for years, including some of those gays and lesbians from the previous post). Even if with these people I talk mostly about music, I would be truly shocked to find out that one of them was trans all along.
Do you want larger numbers? My father runs a small business with ~1000 customers, and most of them have been the same for years. Even if he doesn’t personally know all of them, I am quite sure that he would notice if one of them transitioned. So far, he has not.
I think this conversation is failing to reliably distinguish between “being trans” in the sense of experiencing substantial gender dysphoria and/or adopting the self-label trans, and “being trans” in the sense of taking visible steps to socially or medically transition.
I buy Bezzi’s self-report that they never see people who have visibly taken steps to transition; there’s no reason for Bezzi to be confused about this.
I think people are pushing back because (of the true fact that) many trans people are not taking visible steps to transition, especially in enclaves where it’s unheard of.
So this is actually rather tightly analogous to the perception of queer folk in the 1950′s … one could (validly) say that they’ve never seen anyone acting queer, but it would be an overstep to conclude from this that one does not regularly interact with queer people.
Presumably, no one in this thread disagrees that:
Bezzi would notice (in most though definitely not all cases) someone who had socially or medically transitioned
Bezzi would not notice (in most though definitely not all cases) someone who was “quietly trans” and taking no steps to change the situation
This post is, in large part, about “the latter category is WAY bigger than one would naively think.” You’ve met them. You just didn’t clock them.
If I search for the number of the trans population, I find https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender-population-by-state which suggests a rate of identifying as trans of 0.5% in for people between 18 and 25. It seems to cite the Williams Institute as a source which seems to me like an organization that’s friendly toward trans people and doesn’t really have a reason to misstate the prevalence. When I searched for information other sources also came up with something in the same ballpark.
At that base rate, knowing 60 to 80 people and nobody of them being trans should not be surprising.
Do you believe that the base rates that organizations like the Williams Institute come up with are wrong?
No. I’m disagreeing with Bezzi’s claim to have never encountered any trans person and to have no trans people in their extended social network of hundreds or thousands. I don’t doubt their self-report re: visibly trans people, but they’re unjustified in the conclusion “there just aren’t invisible trans people around me in my town.”