I actually had more of a response to your email in the original draft, and was advised to cut it for the final version by multiple people as being too personal/specific for a public post.
is not a positive sign.
The core worries of my email were impersonal and quite generic.
So the core of my email was this concern:
This should be not much controversial facts 1) REACH put itself into the position of being one of the most public-facing things in Berkeley community. If non-Berkeley people come to Bay and look for events and places, they’ll highly likely land up at REACHs page, or at the physical space. -- you have obvious incentives to be it that way 2) REACH got some support from SSC, so many people noticed, some of them are donating 3) This is actually happening: during my stay, few times some random person asked at the door that they heard about REACH and wanted to see it. 4) As Berkeley is one of the main hubs, people from other places will come to Berkeley and take inspiration
the result is REACH is one of the “store-fronts” of the community
These are my vague impressions 5) At the same time, it seems REACH is actually supported only by some part of the community, or the support is more like “donating stuff” 6) The ambition is more focused on the local community.
On the object level 7) It is very expensive (...) 8) It is obviously cash-strapped 9) The lack of money is signaled in various ways
(which together make it somewhat problematic store-front)
So in short, my worry was that having REACH as one of the most public facing things with the external world could be harmful mainly from signalling/PR perspective.
As it may be unclear what I have meant by 8) and 9): we have talked previously in person about, for example, “donated clothes exchange”. While “donated clothes exchange” may be a typical activity of a “stock community center”, it is surprising in a rationalist centre. From the signalling perspective, to an external visitor, it shows
implicitly very low valuation of your time
implicitly somewhat low valuation of the cost of your space
The rest of the email were mainly constructive suggestions how to get aligned/ potentially get funding from CEA to get the place more professional look, and that really was more personal.
The more meta-point is: What I care in this about is EA (and rationality, x-risk, etc), and I raised a concern about a possible harm to these from a “brand” perspective. The harm caused by such problem would be mainly in opportunities (the specific way of causing impact being some of the random SSC readers visiting, looking at this, and turning away with the first impression “ok these people talk a lot about changing the world online, but it is not a serious effort”)
If it was impossible to distill some sort of impersonal, generic concern from the previously quoted text, and if multiple people advised you that addressing concerns like this is too personal/specific for a public post, than, well, that’s the point 5).
Some of this feels like a kind of criticism that’s inevitably going to apply to a project like REACH, whether it succeeds or not. Like, there’s basically no way to avoid it being very expensive. There may be a path to “not cash-strapped”, but it seems like basically any such path is going to go via “cash-strapped store front”, because it’s going to be much easier to get money after it’s seen to be successful.
(Perhaps it would be nice if we could raise money for these things without someone like Sarah needing to fund their initial success, and then maybe we could avoid them being both cash-strapped and highly public. But if so, that’s more a criticism of the community than of REACH.)
That doesn’t make your criticisms false, but if I’m right, this seems like a property of them that’s important to note and engage with.
Separately, I’m not convinced that the signaling properties of clothes exchanges are what you say. I have no evidence here, just intuition.
The back rooms now look like more coworking space, no longer like thrift store
Various “suggested donation” things now really look like “suggested donation” less like “if you don’t pay this price you should be ashamed”
You seem less stressed
It seems REAC will turn into REACH, & similar
The impression I had before was more nuanced that how you possibly interpreted it at that time. I’m definitely pro “people need spaces”; I also believe how spaces feel have important and underappreciated influence on what people do in them. To somehow sum it, I like how things have changed.
Unfortunately this
is not a positive sign.
The core worries of my email were impersonal and quite generic.
So the core of my email was this concern:
This should be not much controversial facts
1) REACH put itself into the position of being one of the most public-facing things in Berkeley community. If non-Berkeley people come to Bay and look for events and places, they’ll highly likely land up at REACHs page, or at the physical space.
-- you have obvious incentives to be it that way
2) REACH got some support from SSC, so many people noticed, some of
them are donating
3) This is actually happening: during my stay, few times some random
person asked at the door that they heard about REACH and wanted to see
it.
4) As Berkeley is one of the main hubs, people from other places will
come to Berkeley and take inspiration
the result is REACH is one of the “store-fronts” of the community
These are my vague impressions
5) At the same time, it seems REACH is actually supported only by some
part of the community, or the support is more like “donating stuff”
6) The ambition is more focused on the local community.
On the object level
7) It is very expensive (...)
8) It is obviously cash-strapped
9) The lack of money is signaled in various ways
(which together make it somewhat problematic store-front)
So in short, my worry was that having REACH as one of the most public facing things with the external world could be harmful mainly from signalling/PR perspective.
As it may be unclear what I have meant by 8) and 9): we have talked previously in person about, for example, “donated clothes exchange”. While “donated clothes exchange” may be a typical activity of a “stock community center”, it is surprising in a rationalist centre. From the signalling perspective, to an external visitor, it shows
implicitly very low valuation of your time
implicitly somewhat low valuation of the cost of your space
The rest of the email were mainly constructive suggestions how to get aligned/ potentially get funding from CEA to get the place more professional look, and that really was more personal.
The more meta-point is: What I care in this about is EA (and rationality, x-risk, etc), and I raised a concern about a possible harm to these from a “brand” perspective. The harm caused by such problem would be mainly in opportunities (the specific way of causing impact being some of the random SSC readers visiting, looking at this, and turning away with the first impression “ok these people talk a lot about changing the world online, but it is not a serious effort”)
If it was impossible to distill some sort of impersonal, generic concern from the previously quoted text, and if multiple people advised you that addressing concerns like this is too personal/specific for a public post, than, well, that’s the point 5).
Some of this feels like a kind of criticism that’s inevitably going to apply to a project like REACH, whether it succeeds or not. Like, there’s basically no way to avoid it being very expensive. There may be a path to “not cash-strapped”, but it seems like basically any such path is going to go via “cash-strapped store front”, because it’s going to be much easier to get money after it’s seen to be successful.
(Perhaps it would be nice if we could raise money for these things without someone like Sarah needing to fund their initial success, and then maybe we could avoid them being both cash-strapped and highly public. But if so, that’s more a criticism of the community than of REACH.)
That doesn’t make your criticisms false, but if I’m right, this seems like a property of them that’s important to note and engage with.
Separately, I’m not convinced that the signaling properties of clothes exchanges are what you say. I have no evidence here, just intuition.
Jan, I’m curious after seeing REACH again this month if you still have the same impression as before.
It seems to be moving in good direction! Things I noticed and like include
Seems a larger group of people is involved in the management of the place
It has a web separate from http://www.bayrationality.com/
The back rooms now look like more coworking space, no longer like thrift store
Various “suggested donation” things now really look like “suggested donation” less like “if you don’t pay this price you should be ashamed”
You seem less stressed
It seems REAC will turn into REACH, & similar
The impression I had before was more nuanced that how you possibly interpreted it at that time. I’m definitely pro “people need spaces”; I also believe how spaces feel have important and underappreciated influence on what people do in them. To somehow sum it, I like how things have changed.