“Status”, in this case, seems once again to be a non-load-bearing term.
I don’t think this is fair as a criticism of my analysis, as the details I gave indicate how I cash out “status” at a lower level of abstraction.The explanatory power of the term in this case is that people have an expectation that with enough status, they can get away with violating group norms (and demonstrating this augments status), and Gwern seems to (falsely) think he(?) has sufficient status to get away with violating this norm. (Really, this norm is important to this group and I don’t believe anyone has enough status to get away with violating it here.)
I realize we have had some confused posts about status lately, including the one your linked comment responds to, but that doesn’t make it wrong to use the word to refer to a summary of a person’s value and power within a group, and other group members’ perceptions of these attributes.
Also note, I did not write that comment to explain to others what is going on, but to get Gwern to conform to what I believe is an important group norm.
Mind you, I have no particular interest in this minor dispute about sourcing quotes. By and large I prefer to see quotes with a source.
I am (perhaps unwisely) acting on my frustration at one more use of the term “status” that has increased my confusion, while my requests for clarification have gone without response, and thus opportunistically linking an unrelated thread to those requests.
The explanatory power of the term in this case is that people have an expectation
I do not have privileged access to gwern’s expectations, I can only infer them in very roundabout ways from gwern’s behaviour. I would regard with extreme caution an “explanation” that referred to someone’s mental state, without at least a report by that person of their mental state. The short-hand I use for this mistake is “mind-reading”.
Maybe if gwern had come out and said “I have 1337(+) karma, punk. I can quote without sourcing if I want to”, I’d be more sympathetic to your use of the term “status”. But gwern didn’t, and in fact gave a reason for not sourcing, so he would be justified in saying something like “Argument screens off status” in response to your claims.
You could just as well have told gwern, “This community has a norm of sourcing quotes. I note your argument that this norm would detract from the value of the quotes by appearing to appeal to authority. I reject the argument, and additionally I think you’re being a jerk.”
(+) Not numerically correct, but close enough that I couldn’t resist the pun.
I did reject the argument, or at least agreed with RobinZ in rejecting the argument. I made the point about “This community has a norm of sourcing quotes.” I won’t just bluntly say “I think you’re being a jerk.” as “jerk” is an inflammatory uninformative term.
It seems to me like you are objecting to my practical use of a theory because you don’t understand it, and because other people have written low quality posts about it (which I criticized). Maybe you should go read a high quality post about it.
I don’t think this is fair as a criticism of my analysis, as the details I gave indicate how I cash out “status” at a lower level of abstraction.The explanatory power of the term in this case is that people have an expectation that with enough status, they can get away with violating group norms (and demonstrating this augments status), and Gwern seems to (falsely) think he(?) has sufficient status to get away with violating this norm. (Really, this norm is important to this group and I don’t believe anyone has enough status to get away with violating it here.)
I realize we have had some confused posts about status lately, including the one your linked comment responds to, but that doesn’t make it wrong to use the word to refer to a summary of a person’s value and power within a group, and other group members’ perceptions of these attributes.
Also note, I did not write that comment to explain to others what is going on, but to get Gwern to conform to what I believe is an important group norm.
Mind you, I have no particular interest in this minor dispute about sourcing quotes. By and large I prefer to see quotes with a source.
I am (perhaps unwisely) acting on my frustration at one more use of the term “status” that has increased my confusion, while my requests for clarification have gone without response, and thus opportunistically linking an unrelated thread to those requests.
I do not have privileged access to gwern’s expectations, I can only infer them in very roundabout ways from gwern’s behaviour. I would regard with extreme caution an “explanation” that referred to someone’s mental state, without at least a report by that person of their mental state. The short-hand I use for this mistake is “mind-reading”.
Maybe if gwern had come out and said “I have 1337(+) karma, punk. I can quote without sourcing if I want to”, I’d be more sympathetic to your use of the term “status”. But gwern didn’t, and in fact gave a reason for not sourcing, so he would be justified in saying something like “Argument screens off status” in response to your claims.
You could just as well have told gwern, “This community has a norm of sourcing quotes. I note your argument that this norm would detract from the value of the quotes by appearing to appeal to authority. I reject the argument, and additionally I think you’re being a jerk.”
(+) Not numerically correct, but close enough that I couldn’t resist the pun.
I think gwern just might be more subtle than a paperclip maximizer.
I did reject the argument, or at least agreed with RobinZ in rejecting the argument. I made the point about “This community has a norm of sourcing quotes.” I won’t just bluntly say “I think you’re being a jerk.” as “jerk” is an inflammatory uninformative term.
It seems to me like you are objecting to my practical use of a theory because you don’t understand it, and because other people have written low quality posts about it (which I criticized). Maybe you should go read a high quality post about it.