Speech patterns are part of culture, and you mentioned them as one of the things which would be changed.
That objection could probably be covered by adding speech patterns rather than eliminating them.
How about religion? Would the atheists here be comfortable with a coin toss approach to being religious or not?
I’m ethnically Jewish (personally agnostic). I’m uncomfortable with Christianity in a way which I think is different from the way people who were raised Christian and who’ve had bad experiences are. I haven’t had personal bad experiences with Christianity, but I’m not only edgy about it, but it’s like Gandhi and the murder pill—I’m not comfortable with the idea of fading out my discomfort, even though I can’t see that it’s doing me any good.
Being Jewish carries a lot of memories with it. I only go to a service if it’s an important event for someone else, but if I do, I’m reasonably familiar with the ritual. I still like the Jewish folk songs I learned in Hebrew school. I suppose I could keep all that (from this paragraph) if the coin toss came up Unitarian, but not otherwise. It’s not as though the folk songs are a secret, but no one else especially bothers to learn them.
The general point is that these differences aren’t just pasted-on labels for the most part. (The exception I’m thinking of is a news story I read about an anti-Semite in Eastern Europe who found out he had Jewish ancestry, gave up anti-Semitism, and became observant. People are very strange.)
I’m not sure how useful arguments from completely imaginary tech are.
Other free association: I’ve read about an exercise where people were asked to list the labels they identified with, and the list tended to mostly include things they’d been hurt about.
Religion seems different insofar as some people think it has a truth value. If I believe Jesus is the Son of God, that’s a very strong argument for not using a machine that turns me into an atheist—once I’m an atheist, I would be wrong on the Jesus question.
I also am ethnically Jewish, but I don’t consider that to be an interesting test case of the principle. Part of why I find the black case interesting is that black people could continue to perpetuate black culture even if they had white skin. Since Jews don’t look very different from the majority population, it’s unclear what a machine to make me “not Jewish” would mean other than that I lose Jewish culture and ritual and so on, which makes it a totally different case.
Being made not Jewish would presumably also mean that you wouldn’t identify as Jewish.
I apparently look Jewish. I’ve been handed $20 by someone in a Western state because of a Bible verse that nations which are friendly to Jews will flourish. I told her I wasn’t observant, but she didn’t care.
A street musician spontaneously played Hatikvah (the Israeli national anthem) for me.
In order to be thoroughly not Jewish, I’d have to look different.
How much is one’s identity in oneself, and how much is in other people’s minds?
One piece of black culture is about hair—having different hair would change the culture.
How much is one’s identity in oneself, and how much is in other people’s minds?
A large majority of German Jews before WWII were fully assimilated and considered themselves Germans, until they were rather sternly reminded of the difference. The situation was very nearly repeated in the Soviet Union around 1953, though Stalin’s death interfered with the planned forced displacement and possibly worse. Still, the resulting anti-Jewish sentiment there never went away completely.
So, other people’s minds often matter more than your own.
Speech patterns are part of culture, and you mentioned them as one of the things which would be changed.
That objection could probably be covered by adding speech patterns rather than eliminating them.
How about religion? Would the atheists here be comfortable with a coin toss approach to being religious or not?
I’m ethnically Jewish (personally agnostic). I’m uncomfortable with Christianity in a way which I think is different from the way people who were raised Christian and who’ve had bad experiences are. I haven’t had personal bad experiences with Christianity, but I’m not only edgy about it, but it’s like Gandhi and the murder pill—I’m not comfortable with the idea of fading out my discomfort, even though I can’t see that it’s doing me any good.
Being Jewish carries a lot of memories with it. I only go to a service if it’s an important event for someone else, but if I do, I’m reasonably familiar with the ritual. I still like the Jewish folk songs I learned in Hebrew school. I suppose I could keep all that (from this paragraph) if the coin toss came up Unitarian, but not otherwise. It’s not as though the folk songs are a secret, but no one else especially bothers to learn them.
The general point is that these differences aren’t just pasted-on labels for the most part. (The exception I’m thinking of is a news story I read about an anti-Semite in Eastern Europe who found out he had Jewish ancestry, gave up anti-Semitism, and became observant. People are very strange.)
I’m not sure how useful arguments from completely imaginary tech are.
Other free association: I’ve read about an exercise where people were asked to list the labels they identified with, and the list tended to mostly include things they’d been hurt about.
Religion seems different insofar as some people think it has a truth value. If I believe Jesus is the Son of God, that’s a very strong argument for not using a machine that turns me into an atheist—once I’m an atheist, I would be wrong on the Jesus question.
I also am ethnically Jewish, but I don’t consider that to be an interesting test case of the principle. Part of why I find the black case interesting is that black people could continue to perpetuate black culture even if they had white skin. Since Jews don’t look very different from the majority population, it’s unclear what a machine to make me “not Jewish” would mean other than that I lose Jewish culture and ritual and so on, which makes it a totally different case.
Being made not Jewish would presumably also mean that you wouldn’t identify as Jewish.
I apparently look Jewish. I’ve been handed $20 by someone in a Western state because of a Bible verse that nations which are friendly to Jews will flourish. I told her I wasn’t observant, but she didn’t care.
A street musician spontaneously played Hatikvah (the Israeli national anthem) for me.
In order to be thoroughly not Jewish, I’d have to look different.
How much is one’s identity in oneself, and how much is in other people’s minds?
One piece of black culture is about hair—having different hair would change the culture.
A large majority of German Jews before WWII were fully assimilated and considered themselves Germans, until they were rather sternly reminded of the difference. The situation was very nearly repeated in the Soviet Union around 1953, though Stalin’s death interfered with the planned forced displacement and possibly worse. Still, the resulting anti-Jewish sentiment there never went away completely.
So, other people’s minds often matter more than your own.