When I hang out in nightclubs, I seem to have two discrete states with a very abrupt transition between them: an “off” state where I’m almost invisible to girls, and an “on” state where they suddenly hang on me in twos and threes. But the “on” state happens rarely (once or twice a month for several hours, max) and I’m still not sure how to trigger it, even though I’ve spent months on experimenting. I’ve established that it doesn’t depend on clothing, haircut, posture or the other obvious controllable factors—it must be some aspect of “inner game” that I sometimes achieve spontaneously but can’t put a finger on. I also know that it’s easier to reach the “on” state after a random girl smiles at me: it becomes a little easier to make the next random girl smile at me, and (with luck) it escalates like runaway AI. Does this match your experience? What is this thing, and do you know any tricks for “switching”?
When I hang out in nightclubs, I seem to have two discrete states with a very abrupt transition between them: an “off” state where I’m almost invisible to girls, and an “on” state where they suddenly hang on me in twos and threes.
In PUA lingo, this state is referred to as simply “state”, since it’s of course the state that PUAs want to be in. ;-)
PUA theorists vary as to what this “state” consists of, but they do say a few things in common about it and about how to produce it. Many have commented on this aspect you describe:
I also know that it’s easier to reach the “on” state after a random girl smiles at me: it becomes a little easier to make the next random girl smile at me, and (with luck) it escalates like runaway AI
Some thinking goes along the lines that the key elements are “nonreactivity” (ie., not being concerned about what other people think of you) and “self-amusement” (i.e. doing things for your own enjoyment and amusement, rather than to achieve some particular outcome).
At the same time, the comments of many gurus suggest that they themselves do not have total or absolute control over this state: they sometimes talk about the need to get early good responses in order to get more later, just like you… but they have rituals and processes both to prime the pump in the first place, or to recover their state when it falters.
Usually, these rituals are both silly and masculine: chest thumping, jumping up and down and whooping, marching through a club with friends while chanting something nonsensical (aka “lording the club”), offering strangers high-fives, opening with ridiculous, but self-amusing lines in a deliberate attempt to invite rejection, etc.
The stated purpose of these rituals is to aid a transition to the desired state, rather than for the direct purposes of a display of confidence, but it’s possible that part of the point is to convince one’s self that the current environment is a safe one for confident self-expression and masculine display… in which case the smiles of females might function similarly.
I’ve tried a couple of these things to improve general outgoingness and sociability (or to get psyched up for writing or speaking performances), with some limited usefulness. But I have not tested any of them as a way to attract women, so your mileage may vary.
Wow, I should have known that you would show up :-) Thanks for the info! Your advice seems to be along the same lines as pwno’s, so I’m reasonably sure that it’s worth trying.
Is the nonconscious, adroit performance of well-practiced behavior which is often referred to by ahtletes as “flow” identical to “state,” a component of “state,” or completely unrelated?
Is the nonconscious, adroit performance of well-practiced behavior which is often referred to by ahtletes as “flow” identical to “state,” a component of “state,” or completely unrelated?
Well, the ways that PUAs “pump state” and the athletes “psych up” certainly have some things in common. Chest bumping, high-fiving, rhythmic group chants and exhalations, or strutting and other displays of confidence, status, or masculine attributes.
Many people have the same experience. You’ve landed the right mindset for a brief time and your outer game improved.
I believe the mindset is mostly a function of personal expectations about your interactions with women. When you expect the interactions to go towards your desired direction, you’re more likely to hit the mindset. Problem is, you can’t make yourself expect positive results just like you can’t make yourself expect coldness when you touch fire.
The most straightforward technique to “switching” this mindset on is to prove to yourself, on a conscious and subconscious level, that you should expect positive results. Gather your evidence, by achieving easier, related goals. For example, if you’re in a nightclub and not in you preferred mindset, try achieving the following:
Ask 5 people for a piece of gum or the time.
Introduce yourself to other men or women you’re not interested in
Ask a good looking female friend to join you
Call up a female friend and have a chat
Make and hold eye contact with 5 girls (without approaching)
You can probably come up with small goals yourself too.
How do you know that this apparent state difference isn’t due to confirmation bias and standard tendencies for humans to see clustering where it doesn’t exist?
Good question, made me think. At any given moment, except the short period of ramp-up, I can tell whether I’m “on” or “off”—from the inside it feels like it’s binary. But it’s true that on the outside my success varies on a continuous scale, because when I’m “off” I still have some tricks up my sleeve. But these tricks require a lot of willpower to use. When I’m “on”, everybody likes me and willpower becomes irrelevant. Maybe it’s about dynamics: when I’m close to “on”, I gravitate toward “on” as I get more validation from others, but when I’m close to “off”, I slide toward “off” for the same reason.
EDIT: This comment is obsolete; it was based on an ambiguity that has been fixed.
Not clear what distinction you’re drawing—if the latter is the effect itself, then it describes it by definition; the question is what’s the cause, of which “social proof” is one possible. Or how were you thinking about it?
Hey, I’d like some advice.
When I hang out in nightclubs, I seem to have two discrete states with a very abrupt transition between them: an “off” state where I’m almost invisible to girls, and an “on” state where they suddenly hang on me in twos and threes. But the “on” state happens rarely (once or twice a month for several hours, max) and I’m still not sure how to trigger it, even though I’ve spent months on experimenting. I’ve established that it doesn’t depend on clothing, haircut, posture or the other obvious controllable factors—it must be some aspect of “inner game” that I sometimes achieve spontaneously but can’t put a finger on. I also know that it’s easier to reach the “on” state after a random girl smiles at me: it becomes a little easier to make the next random girl smile at me, and (with luck) it escalates like runaway AI. Does this match your experience? What is this thing, and do you know any tricks for “switching”?
In PUA lingo, this state is referred to as simply “state”, since it’s of course the state that PUAs want to be in. ;-)
PUA theorists vary as to what this “state” consists of, but they do say a few things in common about it and about how to produce it. Many have commented on this aspect you describe:
Some thinking goes along the lines that the key elements are “nonreactivity” (ie., not being concerned about what other people think of you) and “self-amusement” (i.e. doing things for your own enjoyment and amusement, rather than to achieve some particular outcome).
At the same time, the comments of many gurus suggest that they themselves do not have total or absolute control over this state: they sometimes talk about the need to get early good responses in order to get more later, just like you… but they have rituals and processes both to prime the pump in the first place, or to recover their state when it falters.
Usually, these rituals are both silly and masculine: chest thumping, jumping up and down and whooping, marching through a club with friends while chanting something nonsensical (aka “lording the club”), offering strangers high-fives, opening with ridiculous, but self-amusing lines in a deliberate attempt to invite rejection, etc.
The stated purpose of these rituals is to aid a transition to the desired state, rather than for the direct purposes of a display of confidence, but it’s possible that part of the point is to convince one’s self that the current environment is a safe one for confident self-expression and masculine display… in which case the smiles of females might function similarly.
I’ve tried a couple of these things to improve general outgoingness and sociability (or to get psyched up for writing or speaking performances), with some limited usefulness. But I have not tested any of them as a way to attract women, so your mileage may vary.
Wow, I should have known that you would show up :-) Thanks for the info! Your advice seems to be along the same lines as pwno’s, so I’m reasonably sure that it’s worth trying.
Is the nonconscious, adroit performance of well-practiced behavior which is often referred to by ahtletes as “flow” identical to “state,” a component of “state,” or completely unrelated?
Well, the ways that PUAs “pump state” and the athletes “psych up” certainly have some things in common. Chest bumping, high-fiving, rhythmic group chants and exhalations, or strutting and other displays of confidence, status, or masculine attributes.
“Flow” is certainly a much more general term, no?
PUA state involves flow, but also other things.
Many people have the same experience. You’ve landed the right mindset for a brief time and your outer game improved.
I believe the mindset is mostly a function of personal expectations about your interactions with women. When you expect the interactions to go towards your desired direction, you’re more likely to hit the mindset. Problem is, you can’t make yourself expect positive results just like you can’t make yourself expect coldness when you touch fire.
The most straightforward technique to “switching” this mindset on is to prove to yourself, on a conscious and subconscious level, that you should expect positive results. Gather your evidence, by achieving easier, related goals. For example, if you’re in a nightclub and not in you preferred mindset, try achieving the following:
Ask 5 people for a piece of gum or the time.
Introduce yourself to other men or women you’re not interested in
Ask a good looking female friend to join you
Call up a female friend and have a chat
Make and hold eye contact with 5 girls (without approaching)
You can probably come up with small goals yourself too.
Thanks! Sounds plausible, I’ll test this.
How do you know that this apparent state difference isn’t due to confirmation bias and standard tendencies for humans to see clustering where it doesn’t exist?
Good question, made me think. At any given moment, except the short period of ramp-up, I can tell whether I’m “on” or “off”—from the inside it feels like it’s binary. But it’s true that on the outside my success varies on a continuous scale, because when I’m “off” I still have some tricks up my sleeve. But these tricks require a lot of willpower to use. When I’m “on”, everybody likes me and willpower becomes irrelevant. Maybe it’s about dynamics: when I’m close to “on”, I gravitate toward “on” as I get more validation from others, but when I’m close to “off”, I slide toward “off” for the same reason.
I wonder… is this a “social proof” a.k.a. Magnetic Girlfriend effect? (If you have one girl hanging on you, others become interested?)
Edit: Rephrased to fix ambiguity.
Warning: “Magnetic Girlfriend” is a TV Tropes link.
Definitely not. If I shake myself free and go to another room alone, it works just as strongly.
EDIT: This comment is obsolete; it was based on an ambiguity that has been fixed.
Not clear what distinction you’re drawing—if the latter is the effect itself, then it describes it by definition; the question is what’s the cause, of which “social proof” is one possible. Or how were you thinking about it?
Fixed, sorry. (Two different names for the same basic thing.)