# RickJS comments on Ingredients of Timeless Decision Theory

• Inorite? What is that?

I sus­pect I’m not smart enough to play on this site. I’m quite un­sure I can even parse your sen­tence cor­rectly, and I can’t imag­ine a rea­son to ad­just the ex­ter­nal pay­off ma­tri­ces (they were given by Wei Dai, that is the origi­nal prob­lem I’m dis­cussing) so the in­ter­nal pay­off mtri­ces match some­thing. I’m baf­fled.

• in­orite”.

• See Cyan’s com­ment be­low. Do not be dis­pir­ited by lols­peak.

Also, the rea­son to ad­just the pay­off ma­tri­ces in the origi­nal prob­lem is so that your ‘in­ter­nal’ pay­off ma­tri­ces match those of Wei Dai’s prob­lem, or to put it an­other way, con­sider the prob­lem in the least con­ve­nient pos­si­ble world. Ba­si­cally, the pris­oner’s dilemma is still there if you take the prob­lem to be in utilons, which take into ac­count things like your ‘com­pas­sion’ (in this case, valu­ing the re­ward given to the other per­son). I can’t quite figure out what your for­mula for dis­count­ing is above, so let me sim­plify...

It would be re­miss for me to not do the math, though it is not my forte:

Sup­pose the ma­trix rep­re­sents jelly beans for you or the op­po­nent, each worth 1 utilon. Fur­ther sup­pose that you get .25 utilons for each jelly bean the op­po­nent gets, due to your ‘com­pas­sion’. Now take this pay­off ma­trix (in jel­ly­beans):

``````375/​500 −150/​600
600/​0     75/​100
``````

Which be­comes in your ‘in­ter­nal’ ma­trix (in utilons):

``````500/​500   0/​600
600/​0   100/​100
``````

Now co­op­er­a­tion is dom­i­nated by defec­tion for the ‘com­pas­sion­ate’ per­son.

Some­one please note if my num­bers don’t work out—it’s early here.

• Ah. Thanks! I think I get that.

But maybe I just think I do. I thought I un­der­stood that nar­row part of Wei Dai’s post on a prob­lem that maybe defeats TDT. I had no idea that com­pas­sion had already been con­sid­ered and com­pen­sated out of con­sid­er­a­tion. And that’s such com­mon shared knowl­edge here in the LessWrong com­mu­nity that it need not be men­tioned.

I have a lot to learn. I now see I was very ar­ro­gant think I could con­tribute here. I should read the archives & wiki be­fore I post. I apol­o­gize.

<<Be­gins to com­pute an es­ti­mated time to de-lurk. They col­lec­tively write sev­eral times faster than I can read, even if I don’t slow down to mull it over. Hmmm… >>