How geographically spread out are you, measured in miles between the two furthest members or maybe average miles from the usual meeting point? That you meet up once a month implies you probably don’t have to take a plane but that it is a long drive.
Assume someone else wanted to replicate your group. What advice would you give specifically about group formation? From the outside, I’m curious how you started initially and whether there are any common traits among you that are not common among most rationalists? What activities/policies/habits did you set up first, particularly around keeping the group active together and allowing for iterative improvement?
Separate question: How much of the improvements do you attribute to the group vs self-directed growth?
I think a lot of the benefits you’re describing seem like they would come from having a close group of friends who are smart and pay attention, but given things like Project Hufflepuff and Dragon Army if you’ve successfully formed a close group of rationalists then the most important information I want to learn from you is how to do that, especially since your method doesn’t rely on moving into an apartment with other people.
“Programmer with friends who goes to the gym” already describes me, but I would be moderately interested in trying to replicate this given that more friends and more commitment mechanisms to keep working out would be good things for me.
The geographical distances are between 50 and 100 miles, that means an hour or two of travel. Could be worse, but it is an inconvenience.
It is hard to distill with any confidence what were the “main ingredients” of our group; this is a meta question that probably contains answers to many other questions. Our best guess is that we all saw rationality in light of self-improvement, rather than as an appendix to transhumanism.
We have a shared expectation in the group that each member should at least “become an adult”, which approximately means: self-control (not procrastinating, completing the tasks they set to complete, overcoming their ugh fields, avoiding addiction), self-reliance (taking care of one’s health and finance, using google before asking), emotional maturity (not acting like a child), reliability (remembering commitments, fulfilling promises, coming on time), assertiveness (clear communication, resisting peer pressure), agency, organization (not losing stuff, calendars and to-do lists), basic security, etc. This is apparently considered boring by some, but it is a standard that practically everyone fails to meet.
We suggest to keep it friendly and voluntary, but also start off by setting a high bar, preferably by example. At the first meetup, we had a presentation by one member, about their background and goals, with an emphasis on their workout routine, along with some hard data on exercise, such as duration, heart rate, calories burned… for example, it was interesting to see a graph of resting heart rate for the last year, reflecting some lifestyle changes during that year. This presentation itself already inspired more members to start tracking their data. Most other members did similar presentations later.
Talk about expectations and agree on infrastructure first. Lack of common understanding of “what is the point?” and practical problems are probably major contributors to why these things tend to fizzle out quickly in general. Agree on what form of reporting everyone thinks they would probably like to do (daily, weekly, meetup to meetup…). Then keep each other accountable.
Make it a private thing (with the fight club mindset), not some open, non-committal side event. Keep it small so that every individual stands out.
How much of the improvements do you attribute to the group vs self-directed growth?
It is not possible to provide an exact answer, because there were confounders such as people leaving university, getting or losing a job, and as a consequence having different amounts of free time. But we have some previous experience with self-directed growth before the group, and there are various tangible things that are clearly a result of the group: people exercising more frequently, changes in nutrition and supplementation, changes in investment strategy. Some members report feeling better and being more relaxed in stressful social settings, as a result of having a group where they are normal (a group that accepts both their rationality and self-improvement). Plus some business activities done together.
How geographically spread out are you, measured in miles between the two furthest members or maybe average miles from the usual meeting point? That you meet up once a month implies you probably don’t have to take a plane but that it is a long drive.
Assume someone else wanted to replicate your group. What advice would you give specifically about group formation? From the outside, I’m curious how you started initially and whether there are any common traits among you that are not common among most rationalists? What activities/policies/habits did you set up first, particularly around keeping the group active together and allowing for iterative improvement?
Separate question: How much of the improvements do you attribute to the group vs self-directed growth?
I think a lot of the benefits you’re describing seem like they would come from having a close group of friends who are smart and pay attention, but given things like Project Hufflepuff and Dragon Army if you’ve successfully formed a close group of rationalists then the most important information I want to learn from you is how to do that, especially since your method doesn’t rely on moving into an apartment with other people.
“Programmer with friends who goes to the gym” already describes me, but I would be moderately interested in trying to replicate this given that more friends and more commitment mechanisms to keep working out would be good things for me.
The geographical distances are between 50 and 100 miles, that means an hour or two of travel. Could be worse, but it is an inconvenience.
It is hard to distill with any confidence what were the “main ingredients” of our group; this is a meta question that probably contains answers to many other questions. Our best guess is that we all saw rationality in light of self-improvement, rather than as an appendix to transhumanism.
We have a shared expectation in the group that each member should at least “become an adult”, which approximately means: self-control (not procrastinating, completing the tasks they set to complete, overcoming their ugh fields, avoiding addiction), self-reliance (taking care of one’s health and finance, using google before asking), emotional maturity (not acting like a child), reliability (remembering commitments, fulfilling promises, coming on time), assertiveness (clear communication, resisting peer pressure), agency, organization (not losing stuff, calendars and to-do lists), basic security, etc. This is apparently considered boring by some, but it is a standard that practically everyone fails to meet.
We suggest to keep it friendly and voluntary, but also start off by setting a high bar, preferably by example. At the first meetup, we had a presentation by one member, about their background and goals, with an emphasis on their workout routine, along with some hard data on exercise, such as duration, heart rate, calories burned… for example, it was interesting to see a graph of resting heart rate for the last year, reflecting some lifestyle changes during that year. This presentation itself already inspired more members to start tracking their data. Most other members did similar presentations later.
Talk about expectations and agree on infrastructure first. Lack of common understanding of “what is the point?” and practical problems are probably major contributors to why these things tend to fizzle out quickly in general. Agree on what form of reporting everyone thinks they would probably like to do (daily, weekly, meetup to meetup…). Then keep each other accountable.
Make it a private thing (with the fight club mindset), not some open, non-committal side event. Keep it small so that every individual stands out.
It is not possible to provide an exact answer, because there were confounders such as people leaving university, getting or losing a job, and as a consequence having different amounts of free time. But we have some previous experience with self-directed growth before the group, and there are various tangible things that are clearly a result of the group: people exercising more frequently, changes in nutrition and supplementation, changes in investment strategy. Some members report feeling better and being more relaxed in stressful social settings, as a result of having a group where they are normal (a group that accepts both their rationality and self-improvement). Plus some business activities done together.