I think it’s not uncommon for people to call things they don’t like “religions”, as a way to tacitly assert that the followers of some movement or idea are dogmatic without directly claiming it. The stronger version is calling an idea or an idiology “a cult”.
See this nicely collected list of examples courtesy of Scott, in an essay that aderesses the topic:
On the last Links thread, Eric Raymond claims that environmentalism is a religion. It has “sins” like wasting energy and driving gas-guzzling SUVs. It has “taboos” like genetically modified foods. It has an “apocalypse” in the form of global warming. It even has “rituals” in the form of weekly recycling.
True! It is very often used pejoratively. I am mostly uninterested in whether or not it’s pejorative. I think it’s descriptively accurate. I think the place in thingspace where rationalism lives is close to religion.
How many people have DENIED that transhumanism, social justice, liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism, communism, capitalism, objectivism, apple or unix is a religion? Is this a common feature for people interested in those things?
If the standard is “very prominently and loudly denies being a religion” I think you will find that like 10:1 loud denials of being a religion come from cults, not from non-religions.
I am mostly uninterested in whether or not it’s pejorative. I think it’s descriptively accurate.
This discussion has implications on the validity of rationalism on its own terms, and also on how others should relate to rationalism.
The question is about what-is-true, but the reason we’re interested is what-is-good. This means we all have to be extra careful to keep our what-is-good boxes separate from our what-is-true boxes (I’m not accusing you of failing to do so).
I think that’s what you’re implying above, you’re saying “im not calling you names. I’m actually thinking about this!”, which is good. But what you said is dishonest.
It does have implications, and you are interested in them (for good reason)
Nevertheless, a worldview centered on preventing an imminent apocalypse is extremely easy to weaponize.
[...]
Cults are just religious sects that are new, horrible, or both.
My people have something called the Litany of Tarski, for just these situations. It is from one of our most ancient texts.
If [rationalsim is a cult], I want to believe that [rationalism is a cult]. If [rationalism is not a cult], I want to believe that [rationalism is not a cult]. Let me not become attatched to beliefs I do not want.
I think it’s not uncommon for people to call things they don’t like “religions”, as a way to tacitly assert that the followers of some movement or idea are dogmatic without directly claiming it. The stronger version is calling an idea or an idiology “a cult”.
See this nicely collected list of examples courtesy of Scott, in an essay that aderesses the topic:
True! It is very often used pejoratively. I am mostly uninterested in whether or not it’s pejorative. I think it’s descriptively accurate. I think the place in thingspace where rationalism lives is close to religion.
How many people have DENIED that transhumanism, social justice, liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism, communism, capitalism, objectivism, apple or unix is a religion? Is this a common feature for people interested in those things?
If the standard is “very prominently and loudly denies being a religion” I think you will find that like 10:1 loud denials of being a religion come from cults, not from non-religions.
This discussion has implications on the validity of rationalism on its own terms, and also on how others should relate to rationalism.
The question is about what-is-true, but the reason we’re interested is what-is-good. This means we all have to be extra careful to keep our what-is-good boxes separate from our what-is-true boxes (I’m not accusing you of failing to do so).
I think that’s what you’re implying above, you’re saying “im not calling you names. I’m actually thinking about this!”, which is good. But what you said is dishonest.
It does have implications, and you are interested in them (for good reason)
My people have something called the Litany of Tarski, for just these situations. It is from one of our most ancient texts.
If [rationalsim is a cult], I want to believe that [rationalism is a cult]. If [rationalism is not a cult], I want to believe that [rationalism is not a cult]. Let me not become attatched to beliefs I do not want.