Maybe you have a deontological soft-spot for gays, or you have an egoistic preference for the wellbeing of gays.
Not for gays specifically, of course, just for all minorities who share the “born that way but can be broken into a different mold by torture+brainwashing” pattern. If Mormons tried those “shaming” tactics, etc on, say, opponents of transhumanism or borderline-autistic geeks, I’d speak out for those. Because I feel that, socially, manipulating people like that is a line that should not be crossed.
Well, of course I take it personally being bisexual myself, but still—I spoke out for gay rights even before I realized my own sexuality, just because it always looked like a glaring injustice to me.
Aren’t you currently shaming Mormonism? Not tolerating intolerance isn’t exactly self-defeating, but if you look at the antifa guys, you really start to wonder whether that’s a path you want to go down.
I might be, but that’s basically throwing rocks at a mob to protect/avenge the “whore” they’re stoning. This said, I’d defend their right to be bigoted or Nazi or pedophiles or whatever in their own minds and in conversations between ideologically similar folks—just as long as the problematic meme doesn’t harm a real person or spread its poison.
Not for gays specifically, of course, just for all minorities who share the “born that way but can be broken into a different mold by torture+brainwashing” pattern.
That description would cover psychopaths, alcoholics, people with anger management problems, etc. - and in their case, the brainwashing seems much more justified if it works. It might even justify the occasional “fixing” of someone that doesn’t need to be fixed (though I don’t know if that’s the case for Mormonism).
Obvious caveat: the above is for “socially affordable” minority behavior. “Socially affordable” means basically “the kind that doesn’t in its essense hurt other people too badly”. Gays don’t, (many) Muslims don’t, weed smokers don’t, psychopaths do. There are borderline cases, but the harm principle is pretty easy to use here overall.
Not for gays specifically, of course, just for all minorities who share the “born that way but can be broken into a different mold by torture+brainwashing” pattern. If Mormons tried those “shaming” tactics, etc on, say, opponents of transhumanism or borderline-autistic geeks, I’d speak out for those. Because I feel that, socially, manipulating people like that is a line that should not be crossed.
Well, of course I take it personally being bisexual myself, but still—I spoke out for gay rights even before I realized my own sexuality, just because it always looked like a glaring injustice to me.
Aren’t you currently shaming Mormonism? Not tolerating intolerance isn’t exactly self-defeating, but if you look at the antifa guys, you really start to wonder whether that’s a path you want to go down.
I might be, but that’s basically throwing rocks at a mob to protect/avenge the “whore” they’re stoning. This said, I’d defend their right to be bigoted or Nazi or pedophiles or whatever in their own minds and in conversations between ideologically similar folks—just as long as the problematic meme doesn’t harm a real person or spread its poison.
That description would cover psychopaths, alcoholics, people with anger management problems, etc. - and in their case, the brainwashing seems much more justified if it works. It might even justify the occasional “fixing” of someone that doesn’t need to be fixed (though I don’t know if that’s the case for Mormonism).
Obvious caveat: the above is for “socially affordable” minority behavior. “Socially affordable” means basically “the kind that doesn’t in its essense hurt other people too badly”. Gays don’t, (many) Muslims don’t, weed smokers don’t, psychopaths do. There are borderline cases, but the harm principle is pretty easy to use here overall.
Could you taboo what you mean by “torture+brainwashing”.
See my other reply; it’s aggressive influence by people in a position of emotional power—influence that has no justifiable social goal.
So, by “torture+brainwashing”, you mean persuasion? Your terminology is slightly confusing, to say the least.