FWIW, I agree with you that LessWrong ought not discuss partisan-politically charged topics, and have held this position from long before your dramatic arrival.
Granted, I would have probably phrased the position more neutrally, something like “The local rationality level isn’t reliably high enough to support productive discussions of such topics, especially given the sorts of people who will show up here if such discussions are common,” rather than something like “LessWrong is such an irrational cesspool of lunacy that, unlike the rational and reasonable people who frequent other Internet forums, it is incapable of discussing politics without going apeshit and thereby drowning in a sea of crazy.”
But it amounts to the same thing from a policy perspective.
I do find it hysterically funny that someone who chooses the second formulation over the first is also devoting so much energy to policing our tone, though it’s not really surprising.
I will note that the second formulation was the result of having spent a significant amount of time and effort attempting to present my viewpoints in as reasonable a way possible to people who would evidently rather characterize me as a political agent pushing a left-wing agenda. A certain amount of frustration played a part.
Anyway, you misread my conclusion. The point is not that Less Wrong ought not to discuss partisan-politically charged topics, I am saying that the fact that the barest mention of politics causes all rationality to fly out of the window means that Less Wrong failed in its objective. People here aren’t any better at discussing emotional topics than on other forums on the internet. (I am now tempted to post a thread on JREF criticizing their tendency to call everything they disagree with “woo”, including transhumanism, just to see if I get the same reaction as here on Less Wrong)
Yes, I understand that you only chose to be insulting and rude to us because you were frustrated with us.
I think it likely that the people you are chastising for being insulting and rude to you were frustrated with you, as well.
Anyway, you misread my conclusion. [..] I am saying that [..] Less Wrong failed in its objective. People here aren’t any better at discussing emotional topics than on other forums on the internet.
I think there is a very big difference between criticizing Less Wrong as a community -which I did- and lambasting an individual -which I am-. If criticism of a community is taken as a personal insult -and it appears to be-, then that is a perfect example of everything that I perceive to be wrong with said community. Note that as a member, I am part of this community, regardless of how much some people would rather see me gone. This discussion really shouldn’t be about us versus them, or Less Wrong versus Sophronius in this case.
I agree that there’s a big difference between criticizing a community and criticizing an individual. I agree that you did criticize LessWrong as a community. I agree that you are an individual. I did not say that criticizing the community was taken as a personal insult, merely that the people who were insulting and rude to you were frustrated with you. I doubt that most of our frustration with you is because we treat your criticisms of the community as a personal insult. I am unsurprised by your conclusions.
I understand that you only chose to be insulting and rude to us because you were frustrated with us.
This is the part I was referring to. I criticized Less Wrong. You interpret this as “being rude to us”. This is party politics, plain and simple, where Less Wrong is the party. I did not criticize you nor was I rude to you, so you should not say “us”.
FWIW, I agree with you that LessWrong ought not discuss partisan-politically charged topics, and have held this position from long before your dramatic arrival.
Granted, I would have probably phrased the position more neutrally, something like “The local rationality level isn’t reliably high enough to support productive discussions of such topics, especially given the sorts of people who will show up here if such discussions are common,” rather than something like “LessWrong is such an irrational cesspool of lunacy that, unlike the rational and reasonable people who frequent other Internet forums, it is incapable of discussing politics without going apeshit and thereby drowning in a sea of crazy.”
But it amounts to the same thing from a policy perspective.
I do find it hysterically funny that someone who chooses the second formulation over the first is also devoting so much energy to policing our tone, though it’s not really surprising.
I will note that the second formulation was the result of having spent a significant amount of time and effort attempting to present my viewpoints in as reasonable a way possible to people who would evidently rather characterize me as a political agent pushing a left-wing agenda. A certain amount of frustration played a part.
Anyway, you misread my conclusion. The point is not that Less Wrong ought not to discuss partisan-politically charged topics, I am saying that the fact that the barest mention of politics causes all rationality to fly out of the window means that Less Wrong failed in its objective. People here aren’t any better at discussing emotional topics than on other forums on the internet. (I am now tempted to post a thread on JREF criticizing their tendency to call everything they disagree with “woo”, including transhumanism, just to see if I get the same reaction as here on Less Wrong)
Yes, I understand that you only chose to be insulting and rude to us because you were frustrated with us.
I think it likely that the people you are chastising for being insulting and rude to you were frustrated with you, as well.
Yes, I understand that this is your main point.
I think there is a very big difference between criticizing Less Wrong as a community -which I did- and lambasting an individual -which I am-. If criticism of a community is taken as a personal insult -and it appears to be-, then that is a perfect example of everything that I perceive to be wrong with said community. Note that as a member, I am part of this community, regardless of how much some people would rather see me gone. This discussion really shouldn’t be about us versus them, or Less Wrong versus Sophronius in this case.
I agree that there’s a big difference between criticizing a community and criticizing an individual.
I agree that you did criticize LessWrong as a community.
I agree that you are an individual.
I did not say that criticizing the community was taken as a personal insult, merely that the people who were insulting and rude to you were frustrated with you.
I doubt that most of our frustration with you is because we treat your criticisms of the community as a personal insult.
I am unsurprised by your conclusions.
This is the part I was referring to. I criticized Less Wrong. You interpret this as “being rude to us”. This is party politics, plain and simple, where Less Wrong is the party. I did not criticize you nor was I rude to you, so you should not say “us”.
OK. Thanks for the clarification.