No problem, I’m just pointing out that there are other perspectives out here.
The Popperian method is universal.
Sure, in the sense it is Turing complete; but that doesn’t make it the most efficient approach for all cases. For example I’m not going to use it to decide the answer to the statement “2 + 3”, it is much more efficient for me to use the arithmetic abstraction.
But we don’t know how to make it do that stuff. Epistemology should help us.
Agreed, it is one of the reasons that I am actively working on epistemology.
Aspects of coming up with moral ideas and judging which ones are good would probably be accomplished well with Bayesian methods.
Example or details?
The naive Bayes classifier can be an effective way to classify discrete input into independent classes. Certainly for some cases it could be used to classify something as “good” or “bad” based on example input.
Bayesian networks can capture the meaning within interdependent sets. For example the meaning of words forms a complex network; if the meaning of a single word shifts it will probably result in changes to the meanings of related words; and in a similar way ideas on morality form connected interdependent structures.
Within a culture a particular moral position may be dependent on other moral positions, or even other aspects of the culture. For example a combination of religious beliefs and inheritance traditions might result in a belief that a husband is justified in killing an unfaithful wife. A Bayesian network trained on information across cultures might be able to identify these kinds of relationships. With this you could start to answer questions like “Why is X moral in the UK but not in Saudi Arabia?”
No, in the sense that it directly applies to all types of knowledge (which any epistemology applies to—which i think is all of them, but that doesn’t matter to universality).
Not in the sense that it’s Turing complete so you could, by a roundabout way and using whatever methods, do anything.
I think the basic way we differ is you have despaired of philosophy getting anywhere, and you’re trying to get rigor from math. But Popper saved philosophy. (And most people didn’t notice.) Example:
With this you could start to answer questions like “Why is X moral in the UK but not in Saudi Arabia?”
You have very limited ambitious. You’re trying to focus on small questions b/c you think bigger ones like: what is moral objectively? are too hard and, since you math won’t answer them, it’s hopeless.
No, in the sense that it directly applies to all types of knowledge (which any epistemology applies to—which i think is all of them, but that doesn’t matter to universality).
Perhaps I don’t understand some nuance of what you mean here. If you can explain it or link to something that explains this in detail I will read it.
But to respond to what I think you mean… If you have a method that can be applied to all types of knowledge, that implies that it is Turing complete; it is therefore equivalent in capability to other Turing complete systems; that also means it is susceptible to the infinite regresses you dislike in “justificationist epistemologies”… i.e. the halting problem.
Also, just because it can be applied to all types of knowledge does not mean it is the best choice for all types of knowledge, or for all types of operations on that knowledge.
I think the basic way we differ is you have despaired of philosophy getting anywhere, and you’re trying to get rigor from math. But Popper saved philosophy. (And most people didn’t notice.) Example:
I would not describe my perspective that way; you may have forgotten that I am a third party in this argument. I think that there is a lot of historical junk in philosophy and that it is continuing to produce a lot junk—Popper didn’t fix this and neither will Bayesianism, it is more of a people problem—but philosophy has also produced and is producing a lot of interesting and good ideas.
I think one way we differ is that you see a distinct difference between math and philosophy and I see a wide gradient of abstractions for manipulating information. Another is that you think that there is something special about Popper’s approach that allows it to rise above all other approaches in all cases, and I think that there are many approaches and that it is best to choose the approach based on the context.
With this you could start to answer questions like “Why is X moral in the UK but not in Saudi Arabia?”
You have very limited ambitious. You’re trying to focus on small questions b/c you think bigger ones like: what is moral objectively? are too hard and, since you math won’t answer them, it’s hopeless.
This was a response to your request for an example; you read too much into it to assume it implies anything about my ambitions.
A question like “what is moral objectively?” is easy. Nothing is “moral objectively”. Meaning is created within contexts of assessment; if you want to know if something is “moral” you must consider that question with a context that will perform the classification. Not all contexts will produce the same result and not all contexts will even support a meaning for the concept of “moral”.
But to respond to what I think you mean… If you have a method that can be applied to all types of knowledge, that implies that it is Turing complete; it is therefore equivalent in capability to other Turing complete systems;
Minor nitpick at least capable of modeling any Turing machine, not Turing complete. For example, something that had access to some form of halting oracle would be able to do more than a Turing machine.
No problem, I’m just pointing out that there are other perspectives out here.
Sure, in the sense it is Turing complete; but that doesn’t make it the most efficient approach for all cases. For example I’m not going to use it to decide the answer to the statement “2 + 3”, it is much more efficient for me to use the arithmetic abstraction.
Agreed, it is one of the reasons that I am actively working on epistemology.
The naive Bayes classifier can be an effective way to classify discrete input into independent classes. Certainly for some cases it could be used to classify something as “good” or “bad” based on example input.
Bayesian networks can capture the meaning within interdependent sets. For example the meaning of words forms a complex network; if the meaning of a single word shifts it will probably result in changes to the meanings of related words; and in a similar way ideas on morality form connected interdependent structures.
Within a culture a particular moral position may be dependent on other moral positions, or even other aspects of the culture. For example a combination of religious beliefs and inheritance traditions might result in a belief that a husband is justified in killing an unfaithful wife. A Bayesian network trained on information across cultures might be able to identify these kinds of relationships. With this you could start to answer questions like “Why is X moral in the UK but not in Saudi Arabia?”
No, in the sense that it directly applies to all types of knowledge (which any epistemology applies to—which i think is all of them, but that doesn’t matter to universality).
Not in the sense that it’s Turing complete so you could, by a roundabout way and using whatever methods, do anything.
I think the basic way we differ is you have despaired of philosophy getting anywhere, and you’re trying to get rigor from math. But Popper saved philosophy. (And most people didn’t notice.) Example:
You have very limited ambitious. You’re trying to focus on small questions b/c you think bigger ones like: what is moral objectively? are too hard and, since you math won’t answer them, it’s hopeless.
Perhaps I don’t understand some nuance of what you mean here. If you can explain it or link to something that explains this in detail I will read it.
But to respond to what I think you mean… If you have a method that can be applied to all types of knowledge, that implies that it is Turing complete; it is therefore equivalent in capability to other Turing complete systems; that also means it is susceptible to the infinite regresses you dislike in “justificationist epistemologies”… i.e. the halting problem.
Also, just because it can be applied to all types of knowledge does not mean it is the best choice for all types of knowledge, or for all types of operations on that knowledge.
I would not describe my perspective that way; you may have forgotten that I am a third party in this argument. I think that there is a lot of historical junk in philosophy and that it is continuing to produce a lot junk—Popper didn’t fix this and neither will Bayesianism, it is more of a people problem—but philosophy has also produced and is producing a lot of interesting and good ideas.
I think one way we differ is that you see a distinct difference between math and philosophy and I see a wide gradient of abstractions for manipulating information. Another is that you think that there is something special about Popper’s approach that allows it to rise above all other approaches in all cases, and I think that there are many approaches and that it is best to choose the approach based on the context.
This was a response to your request for an example; you read too much into it to assume it implies anything about my ambitions.
A question like “what is moral objectively?” is easy. Nothing is “moral objectively”. Meaning is created within contexts of assessment; if you want to know if something is “moral” you must consider that question with a context that will perform the classification. Not all contexts will produce the same result and not all contexts will even support a meaning for the concept of “moral”.
Minor nitpick at least capable of modeling any Turing machine, not Turing complete. For example, something that had access to some form of halting oracle would be able to do more than a Turing machine.