Most lies are bad, but there are circumstances where lying is necessary and does not make truth the enemy, when telling the truth causes immediate bad action.
When people in Germany were sheltering people during the holocaust, and a Nazi official asked if they were hiding anyone, the correct response was “no” even though it was a lie. When someone doesn’t believe in a religion or is gay or something, but they would be cast out of the home or “honor-killed” if parents found out, they should lie until they have a way to escape.
Eliezer also mentions it here, saying that if you’re willing to lie to someone, you should be willing to slash their tires or lobotomize them. But I want to point out the Fallacy of Gray here—there are different degrees of lying, of its implications, and of the implications. I may hide the truth from my teacher about my friend cheating on a test (trying to stop the friend is a different discussion, but I would), but I wouldn’t go so far as to outright violence in order to protect the secret.
I think the vast majority of people will gladly slash your tyres or lobotomize you without a second thought if the alternative is to go to the effort of debating you for any length of time with a genuinely truth-seeking attitude. Only if they fear you may they attempt to fake the latter.
Most lies are bad, but there are circumstances where lying is necessary and does not make truth the enemy, when telling the truth causes immediate bad action.
When people in Germany were sheltering people during the holocaust, and a Nazi official asked if they were hiding anyone, the correct response was “no” even though it was a lie. When someone doesn’t believe in a religion or is gay or something, but they would be cast out of the home or “honor-killed” if parents found out, they should lie until they have a way to escape.
Yes, Eliezer agrees with that and wrote about it in Meta-Honesty: Firming Up Honesty Around Its Edge-Cases (also using the hiding someone from a Nazi example)
Eliezer also mentions it here, saying that if you’re willing to lie to someone, you should be willing to slash their tires or lobotomize them. But I want to point out the Fallacy of Gray here—there are different degrees of lying, of its implications, and of the implications. I may hide the truth from my teacher about my friend cheating on a test (trying to stop the friend is a different discussion, but I would), but I wouldn’t go so far as to outright violence in order to protect the secret.
I think the vast majority of people will gladly slash your tyres or lobotomize you without a second thought if the alternative is to go to the effort of debating you for any length of time with a genuinely truth-seeking attitude. Only if they fear you may they attempt to fake the latter.