This comment resonates with me. I am also a Christian-turned-Atheist.
When something bad happens, or I feel in danger, or I don’t know what to do, usually I want to send up a prayer. Then I have to catch myself and remember that yeah, that’s not going to help.
It won’t help the situation, but it might help you to better handle the situation. The useful thing about “prayer” isn’t that it actually calls down any outside help, but that it forces you to clarify your own thoughts regarding what you want and what would be useful… in much the same way that problem solving is made easier by explaining the problem to somebody else.
Verbal communication forces you to serialize your thoughts, to disassemble what may be a vague or complex structure of interconnecting impulses, ideas, mental models, etc. and then encode it in an organized stream for another mind to re-encode into a similar structure. But the process of doing this forces you to re-encode it as well.
So don’t stop using a useful technique for organizing your thoughts, just because there isn’t an actual mind on the other end of the encoding process (except maybe yours). Programmers have been known to “rubber duck”, i.e., use a literal or figurative rubber duck as the thing to talk to. You’re not going to commit some sort of atheist sin by using an imaginary sky deity as your rubber duck. Or ask the Flying Spaghetti Monster to touch you with His Noodly Appendage to grant you the clarity and wisdom you seek. The value of an invocation comes from its invoker, not its invokee.
You’re not going to commit some sort of atheist sin by using an imaginary sky deity as your rubber duck.
Interesting comment! I was catching myself about to pray all the time when I first deconverted, but always stopped myself, thinking that praying or listening to Christian music would make me a hypocrite of an atheist.
I still listen to Christian music occasionally, and reading your comment makes me wonder whether it would have been okay to go on praying, too.
Would any atheists here argue that it’s always bad to pray?
I wouldn’t find it inconceivable for prayer to have some role outside of the belief in supernatural communication with spiritual beings. In a certain sense it’s a form of meditation. If you change the wording of a prayer away from the implication that someone out there will hear you and make supernatural changes in the world accordingly, you could pray as a sort of meditation on a desire or on a value. I guess, at least, that repeating to yourself that you hold a certain desire and care deeply about it is a way to reinforce it.
Reading this reply, I was immediately reminded of a situation described by Jen Peeples, I think in an episode of The Atheist Experience, about her co-pilot’s reaction of prayer during a life-threatening helicopter incident. ( This Comment is all I could find as reference. )
Unless your particular prayer technique is useful for quickly addressing emergency situations, you probably don’t want to be in the habit of relying on it as a general practice. I think the “rubber duck” Socratic approach could still be useful, so this isn’t a disagreement with your entire comment, just a warning about possible failure modes.
Rubber ducking is for when you’re uncertain how to proceed. An incident on a military aircraft is not such a situation: there are checklists that detail precisely how you’re supposed to proceed, which you’d better be following.
If you are doing problem-solving in a distressed aircraft, and that problem-solving activity is not explicitly listed on the checklist for the current issue, you are Doing It Wrong. And if you’re praying in such a scenario, it had better be something like, “grant me the calm and clarity to follow the checklist, so I’m not distracted by any panicky impulses”.
This comment resonates with me. I am also a Christian-turned-Atheist.
When something bad happens, or I feel in danger, or I don’t know what to do, usually I want to send up a prayer. Then I have to catch myself and remember that yeah, that’s not going to help.
It won’t help the situation, but it might help you to better handle the situation. The useful thing about “prayer” isn’t that it actually calls down any outside help, but that it forces you to clarify your own thoughts regarding what you want and what would be useful… in much the same way that problem solving is made easier by explaining the problem to somebody else.
Verbal communication forces you to serialize your thoughts, to disassemble what may be a vague or complex structure of interconnecting impulses, ideas, mental models, etc. and then encode it in an organized stream for another mind to re-encode into a similar structure. But the process of doing this forces you to re-encode it as well.
So don’t stop using a useful technique for organizing your thoughts, just because there isn’t an actual mind on the other end of the encoding process (except maybe yours). Programmers have been known to “rubber duck”, i.e., use a literal or figurative rubber duck as the thing to talk to. You’re not going to commit some sort of atheist sin by using an imaginary sky deity as your rubber duck. Or ask the Flying Spaghetti Monster to touch you with His Noodly Appendage to grant you the clarity and wisdom you seek. The value of an invocation comes from its invoker, not its invokee.
Interesting comment! I was catching myself about to pray all the time when I first deconverted, but always stopped myself, thinking that praying or listening to Christian music would make me a hypocrite of an atheist.
I still listen to Christian music occasionally, and reading your comment makes me wonder whether it would have been okay to go on praying, too.
Would any atheists here argue that it’s always bad to pray?
I wouldn’t find it inconceivable for prayer to have some role outside of the belief in supernatural communication with spiritual beings. In a certain sense it’s a form of meditation. If you change the wording of a prayer away from the implication that someone out there will hear you and make supernatural changes in the world accordingly, you could pray as a sort of meditation on a desire or on a value. I guess, at least, that repeating to yourself that you hold a certain desire and care deeply about it is a way to reinforce it.
Relevant: guy experimenting with custom-made gods for 12-step programs:
http://tailoredbeliefs.com/born-again-atheist/
Reading this reply, I was immediately reminded of a situation described by Jen Peeples, I think in an episode of The Atheist Experience, about her co-pilot’s reaction of prayer during a life-threatening helicopter incident. ( This Comment is all I could find as reference. )
Unless your particular prayer technique is useful for quickly addressing emergency situations, you probably don’t want to be in the habit of relying on it as a general practice. I think the “rubber duck” Socratic approach could still be useful, so this isn’t a disagreement with your entire comment, just a warning about possible failure modes.
Rubber ducking is for when you’re uncertain how to proceed. An incident on a military aircraft is not such a situation: there are checklists that detail precisely how you’re supposed to proceed, which you’d better be following.
If you are doing problem-solving in a distressed aircraft, and that problem-solving activity is not explicitly listed on the checklist for the current issue, you are Doing It Wrong. And if you’re praying in such a scenario, it had better be something like, “grant me the calm and clarity to follow the checklist, so I’m not distracted by any panicky impulses”.