Thanks for the advice. I think I see what you mean in this post about asking a more general question. Perhaps I’ll post a discussion item about advice for rationalists with hypersomnia disorders, or post something to the next open thread. Most of the advice I’ve seen about sleep on here seems to apply only to normal people, or even just a subset of normal folks.
Yes, I’m not very interested in stimulants largely because of the side effects (on my mood, or sleep, or cardiovascular system, etc.), but they are the first line of treatment for whatever it is that I have. My sleep doctor offered to prescribe me modafinil, but I declined, citing tolerance, its long half-life, and the side effects, so instead he gave me some free samples of armodafinil and said to try it and see, which is reasonable. (Perhaps this makes me a bad rationalist. Given all of the discussion of modafinil here, I’m sure some people would see declining legal modafinil paid for by my insurance company as a great folly.)
Non-drug treatments interest me greatly. Unfortunately, there is little research interest into them, but I have read two detailed reviews of behavioral treatment of narcolepsy and other hypersomnia disorders. My sleep hygiene is excellent, and could hardly be improved. Right now I’m working two naps a day into my schedule. Naps are one of the few behavioral changes I’ve found to help. There are some difficulties in terms of logistics, but once that is settled I should see a marked improvement in my functioning. I am also working in more exercise into my schedule, as exercise will wake me up (though not for as long as a nap, which seems supported by the literature I’ve read). I already get an adequate amount of exercise, but there seems to be a few things I can do to optimize my wakefulness and sleep quality via modifying my exercise routines.
I am curious. What would be the goal in getting into a deep state of trance? Would this serve to help me sleep more solidly?
I am curious. What would be the goal in getting into a deep state of trance? Would this serve to help me sleep more solidly?
I mentioned three ways:
1) Meditation. My general advice would find a local group course.
2) Hypnosis. There are basically two ways. The first is to get some audio file to play right before you go to bed.
The second would be to find a qualified local hypnotherapist. A straightforward hypnosis format for going into a deep trance in an efficient manner is the Elman induction.
3) The third is to go into a floating tank.
As far as hypnosis session I would think that you need a handful or less for the effect. The same goes for a floating tank.
I would think that meditation group sessions and bedtime hypnosis audio tapes take a bit longer, but they might also have fast effects.
I am curious. What would be the goal in getting into a deep state of trance? Would this serve to help me sleep more solidly?
My model would be that some process that normally is to be supposed to switch into relaxation mode when you sleep is constantly in active mode draining energy. I believe that’s a common failure mode of the human system that can cause the kind of issue that you have and that isn’t well treated with existing drugs.
Just going once through the experience of switching into into relaxation mode, might be enough for your brain to learn how to switch the process into relaxation mode.
As you mentioned solid research going into non-drug treatments is often scarce.
In general I think the idea of trying to upregulate a body through stimulus drugs that purposefully downregulates itself because it doesn’t get enough real rest to be silly. Yes you might get a positive test result on a clinical trial but you are fighting the body.
I think it’s a lot more sensible to focus on getting better at relaxation. Poisoning the body with sleeping pills is also not getting better at relaxation.
Your idea of improving sleep quality at night to improve daytime functioning in hypersomnia disorders is not so unusual. The goal would be to increase deep sleep (most narcoleptics have far too little). One of the main treatments for narcolepsy takes exact approach via pharmaceuticals (Xyrem/GHB). Unfortunately, GHB is neurotoxic when used chronically, but there are other drugs (ritanserin, trazodone, etc.) that have the same effect. Ritanserin is particularly effective and has no real side effects best I can tell, but it’s also unfortunately not available cheaply because narcolepsy is such a small market.
In my case, there’s no objective evidence that my sleep quality is bad. My amount of deep sleep is not unusual, though it is a little low according to my sleep doctor. My sleep was not particularly fragmented, either. This does not explain why I don’t feel particularly rested when waking after sleeping a normal (7 to 8 hours) duration. It is possible that my sleep study was misleading for any number of reasons (my sleep doctor suggested two weeks of data would be much more definitive), but until I set up my home EEG (I’ll be using a modified NeuroSky Mindwave Mobile as Zeo went out of business), I can’t check the accuracy of my sleep study. Whether my brain is actually doing what it should be when it’s in deep sleep is another question. For the moment, I believe the sleep study was accurate, and my top hypothesis is that I’m a long sleeper who requires 10+ hours of sleep per night. This possibility has not been examined as rigorously as the others.
Thanks for the advice. I think I see what you mean in this post about asking a more general question. Perhaps I’ll post a discussion item about advice for rationalists with hypersomnia disorders, or post something to the next open thread. Most of the advice I’ve seen about sleep on here seems to apply only to normal people, or even just a subset of normal folks.
Yes, I’m not very interested in stimulants largely because of the side effects (on my mood, or sleep, or cardiovascular system, etc.), but they are the first line of treatment for whatever it is that I have. My sleep doctor offered to prescribe me modafinil, but I declined, citing tolerance, its long half-life, and the side effects, so instead he gave me some free samples of armodafinil and said to try it and see, which is reasonable. (Perhaps this makes me a bad rationalist. Given all of the discussion of modafinil here, I’m sure some people would see declining legal modafinil paid for by my insurance company as a great folly.)
Non-drug treatments interest me greatly. Unfortunately, there is little research interest into them, but I have read two detailed reviews of behavioral treatment of narcolepsy and other hypersomnia disorders. My sleep hygiene is excellent, and could hardly be improved. Right now I’m working two naps a day into my schedule. Naps are one of the few behavioral changes I’ve found to help. There are some difficulties in terms of logistics, but once that is settled I should see a marked improvement in my functioning. I am also working in more exercise into my schedule, as exercise will wake me up (though not for as long as a nap, which seems supported by the literature I’ve read). I already get an adequate amount of exercise, but there seems to be a few things I can do to optimize my wakefulness and sleep quality via modifying my exercise routines.
I am curious. What would be the goal in getting into a deep state of trance? Would this serve to help me sleep more solidly?
I mentioned three ways: 1) Meditation. My general advice would find a local group course.
2) Hypnosis. There are basically two ways. The first is to get some audio file to play right before you go to bed.
The second would be to find a qualified local hypnotherapist. A straightforward hypnosis format for going into a deep trance in an efficient manner is the Elman induction.
3) The third is to go into a floating tank.
As far as hypnosis session I would think that you need a handful or less for the effect. The same goes for a floating tank.
I would think that meditation group sessions and bedtime hypnosis audio tapes take a bit longer, but they might also have fast effects.
My model would be that some process that normally is to be supposed to switch into relaxation mode when you sleep is constantly in active mode draining energy. I believe that’s a common failure mode of the human system that can cause the kind of issue that you have and that isn’t well treated with existing drugs.
Just going once through the experience of switching into into relaxation mode, might be enough for your brain to learn how to switch the process into relaxation mode.
As you mentioned solid research going into non-drug treatments is often scarce.
In general I think the idea of trying to upregulate a body through stimulus drugs that purposefully downregulates itself because it doesn’t get enough real rest to be silly. Yes you might get a positive test result on a clinical trial but you are fighting the body. I think it’s a lot more sensible to focus on getting better at relaxation. Poisoning the body with sleeping pills is also not getting better at relaxation.
Thanks. I had intended to try some meditation for other reasons. I’ll investigate your other suggestions, as well. (Edit: Checking my notes, it seems I had considered some form of hypnosis before as well, but I forgot about it.)
Your idea of improving sleep quality at night to improve daytime functioning in hypersomnia disorders is not so unusual. The goal would be to increase deep sleep (most narcoleptics have far too little). One of the main treatments for narcolepsy takes exact approach via pharmaceuticals (Xyrem/GHB). Unfortunately, GHB is neurotoxic when used chronically, but there are other drugs (ritanserin, trazodone, etc.) that have the same effect. Ritanserin is particularly effective and has no real side effects best I can tell, but it’s also unfortunately not available cheaply because narcolepsy is such a small market.
In my case, there’s no objective evidence that my sleep quality is bad. My amount of deep sleep is not unusual, though it is a little low according to my sleep doctor. My sleep was not particularly fragmented, either. This does not explain why I don’t feel particularly rested when waking after sleeping a normal (7 to 8 hours) duration. It is possible that my sleep study was misleading for any number of reasons (my sleep doctor suggested two weeks of data would be much more definitive), but until I set up my home EEG (I’ll be using a modified NeuroSky Mindwave Mobile as Zeo went out of business), I can’t check the accuracy of my sleep study. Whether my brain is actually doing what it should be when it’s in deep sleep is another question. For the moment, I believe the sleep study was accurate, and my top hypothesis is that I’m a long sleeper who requires 10+ hours of sleep per night. This possibility has not been examined as rigorously as the others.