Is it some deontological objection to killing living things?
Nope
Vegetables are also alive.
And?
To killing animals in particular?
Yes, all mammals, birds, and more are conscious. Many more are self aware. Pigs are of similar intelligence to dogs, so it could be highly likely they are self aware just like dogs are.
I thought we were over this “soul” thing.
Stop being so condescending please.
Commercial vegetable farming kills animals! Pesticides kill insects with nerve gas. If they’re conscious, that’s a horrible way to die. But that wasn’t your true objection. It cuts short future experiences.
Trophic levels.
In that case, why not eat them?
If they aren’t conscious, I’m not against it. However, we don’t know enough right now on insect consciousness; the subject is very hazy.
You can’t eliminate your harm to animals.
Strawman. No vegan has ever said that. Vegans are constantly correcting people saying how its about minimizing suffering, not eliminating.
Try to improve the system.
I’m doing both. I’m an effective altruist and anti-speciesist.
Fund science to determine where the threshold of consciousness is, so you can target your interventions appropriately.
There’s more information on this than you seem to say.
Fund charities that change meat in school lunch from chicken to beef.
I get what you’re saying here, but that’s silly. I’d push for plant foods.
Take this seriously or you’re just signaling.
I do. This isn’t signalling. I’ve thought about every single question you’ve asked here at prior times. These aren’t new to me.
I think I’ve laid out a pretty good case for why Veganism makes no sense
Not really. You seem extremely opposed to it.
I’m sure you’ll come up with some rationalization I haven’t thought of in order to avoid changing your mind.
Because there’s no possible way I could be right, right? It’d have to be rationalizing, lol.
That was only if you answered “yes” to the previous question. You didn’t, so never mind.
Stop being so condescending please.
I’m doing both. I’m an effective altruist
Public posts are talking to the general audience, not just to you. Veganism seems more religious than rational (like politics), but I’ll try to tone it down since you seem more reasonable and asked nicely. Assume good faith. Tone doesn’t come through well in writing, and it’s more on the reader than the writer.
If they aren’t conscious, I’m not against it.
Then why not eat eggs? I don’t mean the factory-farmed kind. If the hens were happy would it be okay? If yes, you should be funding the farms that treat their hens better with your food purchases, even if it’s not perfect, to push the system in a good direction.
Vegans are constantly correcting people saying how its about minimizing suffering, not eliminating.
Because there’s no possible way I could be right, right? It’d have to be rationalizing, lol.
that’s silly. I’d push for plant foods.
Even if that were the more effective intervention? Forget about the diet thing. It’s not that effective. Do what actually makes a difference. Use your buying power to push things in a good direction, even if that means eating meat in the short term. See http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/23/vegetarianism-for-meat-eaters/
Trophic levels.
It’s relevant in some cases, but I don’t entirely buy that argument. Efficiency, yes, but morality? On marginal land not fertile enough for farming, you can still raise livestock. No pesticides. What about wild-caught fish? Those are predators higher up the food chain, but they have a more natural life before they’re caught.
Nope
And?
Yes, all mammals, birds, and more are conscious. Many more are self aware. Pigs are of similar intelligence to dogs, so it could be highly likely they are self aware just like dogs are.
Stop being so condescending please.
Trophic levels.
If they aren’t conscious, I’m not against it. However, we don’t know enough right now on insect consciousness; the subject is very hazy.
Strawman. No vegan has ever said that. Vegans are constantly correcting people saying how its about minimizing suffering, not eliminating.
I’m doing both. I’m an effective altruist and anti-speciesist.
There’s more information on this than you seem to say.
I get what you’re saying here, but that’s silly. I’d push for plant foods.
I do. This isn’t signalling. I’ve thought about every single question you’ve asked here at prior times. These aren’t new to me.
Not really. You seem extremely opposed to it.
Because there’s no possible way I could be right, right? It’d have to be rationalizing, lol.
That was only if you answered “yes” to the previous question. You didn’t, so never mind.
Public posts are talking to the general audience, not just to you. Veganism seems more religious than rational (like politics), but I’ll try to tone it down since you seem more reasonable and asked nicely. Assume good faith. Tone doesn’t come through well in writing, and it’s more on the reader than the writer.
Then why not eat eggs? I don’t mean the factory-farmed kind. If the hens were happy would it be okay? If yes, you should be funding the farms that treat their hens better with your food purchases, even if it’s not perfect, to push the system in a good direction.
Even if that were the more effective intervention? Forget about the diet thing. It’s not that effective. Do what actually makes a difference. Use your buying power to push things in a good direction, even if that means eating meat in the short term. See http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/23/vegetarianism-for-meat-eaters/
It’s relevant in some cases, but I don’t entirely buy that argument. Efficiency, yes, but morality? On marginal land not fertile enough for farming, you can still raise livestock. No pesticides. What about wild-caught fish? Those are predators higher up the food chain, but they have a more natural life before they’re caught.