I see lots of guilt-motivated people use “shoulds” as ultimatums: “either I get the meds, or I am a bad person.” They leave themselves only two choices: go out of their way on the way to work and suffer through awkward human interaction at the pharmacy, or be bad. Either way, they lose: the should has set them up for failure.
But the actual options aren’t “suffer” or “be bad.” The actual options are “incur the social/time costs of buying meds” or “incur the physical/mental costs of feeling ill.” It’s just a choice: you weigh the branches, and then you pick. Neither branch makes you “bad.” It’s ok to decide that the social/time costs outweigh the physical/mental costs. It’s ok to decide the opposite. Neither side is a “should.” Both sides are an option.
Or the idea of prefering to punish someone (me or another) instead of actually looking at the situation and accepting it, makes me think of tolerification:
There’s a certain type of darkness in the world that most people simply cannot to see. It’s not the abstract darkness: people will readily acknowledge that the world is broken, and explain how and why the hated out-group is responsible. And that’s exactly what I’m pointing at: upon seeing that the world is broken, people experience an impulse to explain the brokenness in a way that relieves the tension. When seeing that the world is broken, people reflexively feel a need to explain. Carol can acknowledge that there is suffering abroad, but this acknowledgement comes part and parcel with an explanation about why she bears no responsibility. Dave can acknowledge that he failed to pass the interview, but his mind automatically generates reasons why this is an acceptable state of affairs.
This is the type of darkness in the world that most people cannot see: they cannot see a world that is unacceptable. Upon noticing that the world is broken, they reflexively list reasons why it is still tolerable. Even cynicism, I think, can fill this role: I often read cynicism as an attempt to explain a world full of callous neglect and casual cruelty, in a framework that makes neglect and cruelty seem natural and expected (and therefore tolerable).
I call this reflexive response “tolerification,” and if you watch for it, you can see it everywhere.
The approach of these questions in the replacing guilt series is not exactly at the same level; most notably, I feel Nate is trying to explain why should are not “useful” and cause only harm that cannot serve for accomplishing your goals. On the other hand, I see this post as more about examining the exact mechanism underlying this error we make.
Still, I feel the connection is strong enough to encourage people to read both.
On the other hand, I see this post as more about examining the exact mechanism underlying this error we make.
Yes, though an important part of it is also tackling the means by which the algorithm can be swiftly undone from the inside. Nate’s tools are oriented more to the object level of a specific “should”, whereas I focus more on exposing the assumptions and social imprints that cause us to develop shoulds in the first place.
For example, with Nate’s tools I could have deconstructed the idea that “I should be doing something right now”, but they would likely not have led me to discovering the underlying idea of “I should be taking things seriously”, and the underlying imprinted-by-example meaning of “taking things seriously = freaking the fork out about them”.
To be fair, I’m sure there’s context to Nate’s tools I’m leaving out, and I occasionally do use things somewhat like them with clients, not as an ongoing approach but more as a preparatory stage in learning the Work, to show them the illogicality of a “should” they might be clinging to. (e.g. to demonstrate why “I should have done X yesterday” is based strictly on imaginary hypotheticals)
But in the long run, I consider logical disputation to mostly be useful as a tool for identifying experiential counterpoints to the emotion-backed aliefs that drive the process. You can’t (directly) reason yourself out of what you were never (directly) reasoned into.
Yes, I agree that you are focusing more on how to see the mistake in a meta-way, instead of an outside view as Nate do.
Though I don’t think your example of the distinction is exactly the right one: the idea from Nate of banning “should” or cashing out “should” would be able IMHO to unearth the underlying “I should be taking things seriously” apply the consequentialist analysis of “you will not be measured by how you felt or who you punished. You will be measured by what actually happened, as will we all” (paraphrasing). What I feel is different is that the Way provide a mean for systematically findind this underlying should and explaining it from the inside.
Nonetheless, I find both useful, and I am better for having the Curse of the Counterfactual in my mental toolbox.
What I feel is different is that the Way provide a mean for systematically findind this underlying should and explaining it from the inside.
I notice that I am confused, because I’m not at all clear how Nate’s conceptual model would have helped me find the body-memory of my mother screaming at me about some deadline as a child. In contrast, using the Work to surface my objection to not doing something led me to that memory in a few minutes without me needing to do any particular analysis, consequentialist or otherwise.
This isn’t to say that his approach is wrong, just that it’s incomplete. Notably, it doesn’t provide any guards against confabulating your “explanations” of what your thought process is. When you use analytical reasoning to understand yourself, the answers are often wrong because the thing that is actually causing your response is rarely based on any sort of analysis, rather than simple pattern matching. (In the specific example above, my brain was pattern matching “important thing I’m supposed to do → stress about it, don’t allow yourself to do anything else, and call it taking things seriously, or else you’re a bad person”.)
Finding patterns like this requires observation of what your body and mind are doing, while disengaging from attempts to logically “explain” things, since patterns like these trivially hijack your analytical reasoning (e.g. by tricking you into defining what you’re doing as “taking things seriously” rather than “freaking out”).
Great post! I want to chew on it a bit before making a longer comment, but I noticed similarities between this post and Nate Soares’s Replacing Guilt sequence (which I consider the most important sequence… ever). More specifically, he seems to say things similar about guilt and should in “should” considered harmful, Not because you “should” and Your “shoulds” are not a duty.
For example, from “should” considered harmful:
Or the idea of prefering to punish someone (me or another) instead of actually looking at the situation and accepting it, makes me think of tolerification:
The approach of these questions in the replacing guilt series is not exactly at the same level; most notably, I feel Nate is trying to explain why should are not “useful” and cause only harm that cannot serve for accomplishing your goals. On the other hand, I see this post as more about examining the exact mechanism underlying this error we make.
Still, I feel the connection is strong enough to encourage people to read both.
Yes, though an important part of it is also tackling the means by which the algorithm can be swiftly undone from the inside. Nate’s tools are oriented more to the object level of a specific “should”, whereas I focus more on exposing the assumptions and social imprints that cause us to develop shoulds in the first place.
For example, with Nate’s tools I could have deconstructed the idea that “I should be doing something right now”, but they would likely not have led me to discovering the underlying idea of “I should be taking things seriously”, and the underlying imprinted-by-example meaning of “taking things seriously = freaking the fork out about them”.
To be fair, I’m sure there’s context to Nate’s tools I’m leaving out, and I occasionally do use things somewhat like them with clients, not as an ongoing approach but more as a preparatory stage in learning the Work, to show them the illogicality of a “should” they might be clinging to. (e.g. to demonstrate why “I should have done X yesterday” is based strictly on imaginary hypotheticals)
But in the long run, I consider logical disputation to mostly be useful as a tool for identifying experiential counterpoints to the emotion-backed aliefs that drive the process. You can’t (directly) reason yourself out of what you were never (directly) reasoned into.
Yes, I agree that you are focusing more on how to see the mistake in a meta-way, instead of an outside view as Nate do.
Though I don’t think your example of the distinction is exactly the right one: the idea from Nate of banning “should” or cashing out “should” would be able IMHO to unearth the underlying “I should be taking things seriously” apply the consequentialist analysis of “you will not be measured by how you felt or who you punished. You will be measured by what actually happened, as will we all” (paraphrasing). What I feel is different is that the Way provide a mean for systematically findind this underlying should and explaining it from the inside.
Nonetheless, I find both useful, and I am better for having the Curse of the Counterfactual in my mental toolbox.
I notice that I am confused, because I’m not at all clear how Nate’s conceptual model would have helped me find the body-memory of my mother screaming at me about some deadline as a child. In contrast, using the Work to surface my objection to not doing something led me to that memory in a few minutes without me needing to do any particular analysis, consequentialist or otherwise.
This isn’t to say that his approach is wrong, just that it’s incomplete. Notably, it doesn’t provide any guards against confabulating your “explanations” of what your thought process is. When you use analytical reasoning to understand yourself, the answers are often wrong because the thing that is actually causing your response is rarely based on any sort of analysis, rather than simple pattern matching. (In the specific example above, my brain was pattern matching “important thing I’m supposed to do → stress about it, don’t allow yourself to do anything else, and call it taking things seriously, or else you’re a bad person”.)
Finding patterns like this requires observation of what your body and mind are doing, while disengaging from attempts to logically “explain” things, since patterns like these trivially hijack your analytical reasoning (e.g. by tricking you into defining what you’re doing as “taking things seriously” rather than “freaking out”).