I need to read that Huemer book, it sounds very interesting from what you’ve quoted in this and the other thread here.
Awesome. I should say that I don’t agree with all of the book’s conclusions.
I have quite a lot of … sympathy(?) for the actual philosophical movements’ conclusions, however I still think it collapses to being a bunch of heuristics on top of utilitarian arguments in the end. Also I think objectivism(libertarianisms’ radical grandkid(?)) is … evil? Not utilitarian compatible, at least.
I think I’m pretty much in the same spot here. I think the utilitarian arguments for libertarianism are the strongest, but in the end, I think utilitarians have given good arguments that cast a ton of doubt on the libertarian project. I’m getting a bit off-topic from the post I wrote, but I’ll briefly summarize my views below.
In my opinion, the strongest argument for libertarianism is that it leads to higher medium-run economic growth. My views here are closely aligned with Tyler Cowen’s in his book Stubborn Attachments. Straightforwardly, living standards have gone way up in the last 200 years primarily due to technological progress, and the economic liberalization that has enabled it. Libertarian governance lowers regulatory burden, reduces deadweight loss associated with taxation, and provides businesses more financial capital available for investment. These effects arguably raise economic growth more than the downsides of libertarian governance might lower it.
However, while economic growth is important on medium timescales, existential risk is far more important in the long-run. Bostrom outlined the fundamental reason why about 20 years ago. His vunerable world paper provides a direct argument for centralized government.
Since I don’t actually agree with deontological libertarianism, I can’t fundamentally defend it against some of the objections you’ve raised. I could play Devil’s advocate for a while, but I don’t feel like I know enough about the topic to go much further.
And going full circle, actual political movements that use the label seem built around objectivists, in that they’re willing to say: the principle is more important than the utilitarian outcome of its application. Taxation is bad even if it helps people. Except, of course, modern political movements are awful and don’t say that in public, that’s just for the inner circle. In public they just lie(in my opinion) and claim that all government activity is net utility desroying.
Your critique of the actual political movement seems valid to me. FWIW I think it’s usually a cheapshot to argue against the median activist for a given cause. In large political movements, it’s typical for >90% of the people who identify with the movement to have very bad arguments for their position. That’s why I think we should actually look at what the most well-known and respected philosophers are saying about the issue.
In this case, I would recommend David Friedman’s essay “Market Failure: An Argument for and Against Government”. His central argument against government is not at all deontological. Instead, it’s based on the conjunction of three basic points,
The reason why market solutions are not always best is because of a large class of market failures.
If we look at the source of market failures, we find that they’re generally due to markets failing to internalize the cost and benefits of market interactions.
However, in a democracy, the costs and benefits of political interactions are even less internalized than in market interactions.
Therefore, democracy is not a solution to market failure. I think this is quite different than the claim that “all government activity is net utility destroying” and its one I would be quite happy to see a solid counterargument to.
Awesome. I should say that I don’t agree with all of the book’s conclusions.
I think I’m pretty much in the same spot here. I think the utilitarian arguments for libertarianism are the strongest, but in the end, I think utilitarians have given good arguments that cast a ton of doubt on the libertarian project. I’m getting a bit off-topic from the post I wrote, but I’ll briefly summarize my views below.
In my opinion, the strongest argument for libertarianism is that it leads to higher medium-run economic growth. My views here are closely aligned with Tyler Cowen’s in his book Stubborn Attachments. Straightforwardly, living standards have gone way up in the last 200 years primarily due to technological progress, and the economic liberalization that has enabled it. Libertarian governance lowers regulatory burden, reduces deadweight loss associated with taxation, and provides businesses more financial capital available for investment. These effects arguably raise economic growth more than the downsides of libertarian governance might lower it.
However, while economic growth is important on medium timescales, existential risk is far more important in the long-run. Bostrom outlined the fundamental reason why about 20 years ago. His vunerable world paper provides a direct argument for centralized government.
Since I don’t actually agree with deontological libertarianism, I can’t fundamentally defend it against some of the objections you’ve raised. I could play Devil’s advocate for a while, but I don’t feel like I know enough about the topic to go much further.
Your critique of the actual political movement seems valid to me. FWIW I think it’s usually a cheapshot to argue against the median activist for a given cause. In large political movements, it’s typical for >90% of the people who identify with the movement to have very bad arguments for their position. That’s why I think we should actually look at what the most well-known and respected philosophers are saying about the issue.
In this case, I would recommend David Friedman’s essay “Market Failure: An Argument for and Against Government”. His central argument against government is not at all deontological. Instead, it’s based on the conjunction of three basic points,
The reason why market solutions are not always best is because of a large class of market failures.
If we look at the source of market failures, we find that they’re generally due to markets failing to internalize the cost and benefits of market interactions.
However, in a democracy, the costs and benefits of political interactions are even less internalized than in market interactions.
Therefore, democracy is not a solution to market failure. I think this is quite different than the claim that “all government activity is net utility destroying” and its one I would be quite happy to see a solid counterargument to.