Hmmm, thank you for the posting, it sheds a light on something that I had not seen before. I like a lot of things about the posting, including the standing up part if the hero fucks up. And Samwise is an interesting “sidekick”. I think he differs in at least two other aspects from the typical “sidekick” that deserve special emphasis:
First, Samwise is self-sufficient (“competent”). It’s not the typical Robin character that needs to get rescued by Batman as a stupid plot ploy. He has his own skills and carries his own weight. The hero/ine might save/rescue the world, but s/he does not save/rescue this sidekick.
Second, Samwise is not a little green wo/man working in the background where no-one can see him/her so that it appears as if the hero/ine did everything on his/her own. Same with the other characters that were mentioned (Witch-king, Black, Vader). They are noticed and they do play a visible role. Not only are they a noticeable character, they have a distinct character.
I think both aspects are underdeveloped in the public perception and unfortunately, there are some “heroes/heroines” who prefer to make their sidekicks appear in need of support, or put them in the background altogether. Hmm, and I also wonder whether you could regard the hero/ine as a sidekick to the overall goal. I mean, it’s one thing to see the hero/ine as this great person, but this person is not exactly free either. They have found a cause they devote their life to. So perhaps it’s less a different category but more different levels.
One other thing … I disagree with the comments about the “strong gender overtones” though and was surprised they were mentioned. I get the impression that gender perspectives are way overused and are actually hampering free expression and discussions. It’s this pervasive confusion of “what do I think” and “what does it say about gender if I say it”. I don’t think that “If a man wrote this post, the message would be different.”. I mean, it might be for whose who see everything gender related (ideology has this effect), but not for those who think it shouldn’t matter. The arguments count, not the (gender of the) person who wrote a text.
Perhaps there are differences where the majority of men vs. the majority of women want to go, but that’s only a problem if it’s generalized to all men and/or all women. It’s the person and his/her character, attributes and skills that count, not the gender. And don’t get me started on “patriarchy”. There might be many men in leadership positions, but many other men fail at achieving them. And a lot of men are at the bottom (homeless, suicides, etc.). And personally, I think it’s a tragedy if ideologies/world views try to pressure anyone into anything they do not want—whether it’s men or women, and whether it’s leadership or support.
First, Samwise is self-sufficient (“competent”). It’s not the typical Robin character that needs to get rescued by Batman as a stupid plot ploy. He has his own skills and carries his own weight. The hero/ine might save/rescue the world, but s/he does not save/rescue this sidekick.
I certainly hope to be at least that competent. I’m an adult; I’ve lived on my own and been financially independent of my parents since I was 17. If anything, it feels like “okay, I’ve got this taking care of myself thing down, can I have a harder challenge?” I’m a freaking ICU nurse, responsible for other people’s lives 12 hours a day.
Second, Samwise is not a little green wo/man working in the background where no-one can see him/her so that it appears as if the hero/ine did everything on his/her own… They are noticed and they do play a visible role.
It doesn’t feel like I would strongly prefer being visible to being in the background. Both have an appeal. There’s skill and satisfaction in knowing that you’re making it look like the hero did everything on their own, too.
I mean, it might be for whose who see everything gender related (ideology has this effect), but not for those who think it shouldn’t matter. The arguments count, not the (gender of the) person who wrote a text.
I think people engage with things they read on multiple levels, not just the explicit arguments, and that includes picking up implicit social norms from context/subtext like “all the pro-hero writers are male, all the pro-sidekick writers are female.” And that’s not even taking into account the fact that my article is apparently fairly in line with Christian writing on the topic of service, and so might end up shared among Christian bloggers–and the various Christian’s sects’ attitudes to gender roles are often not ones I endorse.
Perhaps there are differences where the majority of men vs. the majority of women want to go, but that’s only a problem if it’s generalized to all men and/or all women.
FWIW, when I brought up gender, I wasn’t actually thinking “women are choosing to take a submissive position, and that’s bad”. I don’t think it’s bad if women choose that.
My thought was more along the lines of “Hmm, what is written here sounds eerily similar to how many women view romantic relationships, and coincidentally a lot of the people espousing the view are women, which provides further evidence that there is a romance subtext to this hero/sidekick dynamic.” I wasn’t making a value judgement concerning which gender played hero and which sidekick, just noticing that the subtext existed.
And then my second thought was “there may be something psychologically unhealthy about evaluating the quality of romantic attachments in light of how much a person can save the world”. I just don’t think “is this person smart, powerful, and knowledgeable enough to save the world” is an appropriate criteria for a relationship here.
Perhaps I should have not even mentioned gender and just said “this sounds like a romantic relationship”—that would have been sufficient to get the point across. Gender was only important insofar as it gave (correct or incorrect) clues about the motivations about people espousing the views.
I could fairly be accused of stereotyping, since if a bunch of men said “I wanna be a sidekick” I might not have picked up a romantic subtext. (But I think stereotypes are epistemically valid as clues, and although it is sometimes instrumentally better not to act on that information for the purpose of not perpetuating stereotypes I thought it was okay in this case).
Hmmm, thank you for the posting, it sheds a light on something that I had not seen before. I like a lot of things about the posting, including the standing up part if the hero fucks up. And Samwise is an interesting “sidekick”. I think he differs in at least two other aspects from the typical “sidekick” that deserve special emphasis:
First, Samwise is self-sufficient (“competent”). It’s not the typical Robin character that needs to get rescued by Batman as a stupid plot ploy. He has his own skills and carries his own weight. The hero/ine might save/rescue the world, but s/he does not save/rescue this sidekick.
Second, Samwise is not a little green wo/man working in the background where no-one can see him/her so that it appears as if the hero/ine did everything on his/her own. Same with the other characters that were mentioned (Witch-king, Black, Vader). They are noticed and they do play a visible role. Not only are they a noticeable character, they have a distinct character.
I think both aspects are underdeveloped in the public perception and unfortunately, there are some “heroes/heroines” who prefer to make their sidekicks appear in need of support, or put them in the background altogether. Hmm, and I also wonder whether you could regard the hero/ine as a sidekick to the overall goal. I mean, it’s one thing to see the hero/ine as this great person, but this person is not exactly free either. They have found a cause they devote their life to. So perhaps it’s less a different category but more different levels.
One other thing … I disagree with the comments about the “strong gender overtones” though and was surprised they were mentioned. I get the impression that gender perspectives are way overused and are actually hampering free expression and discussions. It’s this pervasive confusion of “what do I think” and “what does it say about gender if I say it”. I don’t think that “If a man wrote this post, the message would be different.”. I mean, it might be for whose who see everything gender related (ideology has this effect), but not for those who think it shouldn’t matter. The arguments count, not the (gender of the) person who wrote a text.
Perhaps there are differences where the majority of men vs. the majority of women want to go, but that’s only a problem if it’s generalized to all men and/or all women. It’s the person and his/her character, attributes and skills that count, not the gender. And don’t get me started on “patriarchy”. There might be many men in leadership positions, but many other men fail at achieving them. And a lot of men are at the bottom (homeless, suicides, etc.). And personally, I think it’s a tragedy if ideologies/world views try to pressure anyone into anything they do not want—whether it’s men or women, and whether it’s leadership or support.
I certainly hope to be at least that competent. I’m an adult; I’ve lived on my own and been financially independent of my parents since I was 17. If anything, it feels like “okay, I’ve got this taking care of myself thing down, can I have a harder challenge?” I’m a freaking ICU nurse, responsible for other people’s lives 12 hours a day.
It doesn’t feel like I would strongly prefer being visible to being in the background. Both have an appeal. There’s skill and satisfaction in knowing that you’re making it look like the hero did everything on their own, too.
I think people engage with things they read on multiple levels, not just the explicit arguments, and that includes picking up implicit social norms from context/subtext like “all the pro-hero writers are male, all the pro-sidekick writers are female.” And that’s not even taking into account the fact that my article is apparently fairly in line with Christian writing on the topic of service, and so might end up shared among Christian bloggers–and the various Christian’s sects’ attitudes to gender roles are often not ones I endorse.
FWIW, when I brought up gender, I wasn’t actually thinking “women are choosing to take a submissive position, and that’s bad”. I don’t think it’s bad if women choose that.
My thought was more along the lines of “Hmm, what is written here sounds eerily similar to how many women view romantic relationships, and coincidentally a lot of the people espousing the view are women, which provides further evidence that there is a romance subtext to this hero/sidekick dynamic.” I wasn’t making a value judgement concerning which gender played hero and which sidekick, just noticing that the subtext existed.
And then my second thought was “there may be something psychologically unhealthy about evaluating the quality of romantic attachments in light of how much a person can save the world”. I just don’t think “is this person smart, powerful, and knowledgeable enough to save the world” is an appropriate criteria for a relationship here.
Perhaps I should have not even mentioned gender and just said “this sounds like a romantic relationship”—that would have been sufficient to get the point across. Gender was only important insofar as it gave (correct or incorrect) clues about the motivations about people espousing the views.
I could fairly be accused of stereotyping, since if a bunch of men said “I wanna be a sidekick” I might not have picked up a romantic subtext. (But I think stereotypes are epistemically valid as clues, and although it is sometimes instrumentally better not to act on that information for the purpose of not perpetuating stereotypes I thought it was okay in this case).