I have to second Eliezer on this one. Saying “good diet and exercise” is just a disguised way of saying “be more disciplined”. While it is true that being more disciplined would cause someone to lose weight, telling someone to be more disciplined does not cause them to actually /be/ more disciplined. The value of advice is properly judged by its effect, and actual observation shows that the “be more disciplined” advice has no effect or even the opposite effect, so it’s simply bad advice. The part which is true is already known by the person receiving the advice, so truth is no defense.
In a world where everyone is sort of a jerk and says “Just shut up and exercise, you fatso!” there may be such a strong drive to avoid condemnation and low social status that you actually do shut up and exercise.
In the alternate world where everyone understands that it’s not really your fault and you can’t shout people into having more willpower and willpower is a sketchy concept anyway and accepts you for who you are—you will have no incentive to get better.
So occasionally I do tell people the equivalent of “shut up and exercise” for certain things, even though I know it doesn’t work directly. It’s a case by case basis, depending on how many opportunities the person is missing and how likely I think my advice is to seriously affect them.
In a world where everyone is sort of a jerk and says “Just shut up and exercise, you fatso!” there may be such a strong drive to avoid condemnation and low social status that you actually do shut up and exercise.
I did shut up and exercise. It didn’t work. That’s the point at which you have a problem.
And for years I felt guilty and that I must be doing something wrong; and then I read about the Shangri-La diet and all these people losing 50 pounds with ease; and then it didn’t work for me; and that was when I figured out that yes, I actually had put in a really serious try, and that what was really going on was that the laws just didn’t work the good and virtuous and just way that everyone said they did.
Now maybe for other things… if willpower really does work… then telling people “Shut up and expend willpower” might be helpful. I’ve just gotten a lot more skeptical, now.
Wasn’t talking about your case in particular. Of would-be-dieters I know, the majority try to go to the gym a few times and then flake out. So although it may apply to you, I don’t think “You can’t just tell people to try harder” is always good advice.
You have it completely backward. In my experience, to a first approximation we already live in the “everyone is a jerk” world, and the steaming piles of moralism serve to make it very hard for people to even think about this issue because of the waves of low self-esteem it brings on.
I have to second Eliezer on this one. Saying “good diet and exercise” is just a disguised way of saying “be more disciplined”. While it is true that being more disciplined would cause someone to lose weight, telling someone to be more disciplined does not cause them to actually /be/ more disciplined. The value of advice is properly judged by its effect, and actual observation shows that the “be more disciplined” advice has no effect or even the opposite effect, so it’s simply bad advice. The part which is true is already known by the person receiving the advice, so truth is no defense.
This touches on a general issue about free will.
In a world where everyone is sort of a jerk and says “Just shut up and exercise, you fatso!” there may be such a strong drive to avoid condemnation and low social status that you actually do shut up and exercise.
In the alternate world where everyone understands that it’s not really your fault and you can’t shout people into having more willpower and willpower is a sketchy concept anyway and accepts you for who you are—you will have no incentive to get better.
So occasionally I do tell people the equivalent of “shut up and exercise” for certain things, even though I know it doesn’t work directly. It’s a case by case basis, depending on how many opportunities the person is missing and how likely I think my advice is to seriously affect them.
I did shut up and exercise. It didn’t work. That’s the point at which you have a problem.
And for years I felt guilty and that I must be doing something wrong; and then I read about the Shangri-La diet and all these people losing 50 pounds with ease; and then it didn’t work for me; and that was when I figured out that yes, I actually had put in a really serious try, and that what was really going on was that the laws just didn’t work the good and virtuous and just way that everyone said they did.
Now maybe for other things… if willpower really does work… then telling people “Shut up and expend willpower” might be helpful. I’ve just gotten a lot more skeptical, now.
Wasn’t talking about your case in particular. Of would-be-dieters I know, the majority try to go to the gym a few times and then flake out. So although it may apply to you, I don’t think “You can’t just tell people to try harder” is always good advice.
You have it completely backward. In my experience, to a first approximation we already live in the “everyone is a jerk” world, and the steaming piles of moralism serve to make it very hard for people to even think about this issue because of the waves of low self-esteem it brings on.