I don’t see how that is the claim at issue. Most people are incompetent. That tells us little about what theism is. How would knowing the answer tell us anything useful about whether or not theism itself is or isn’t a tenable philosophical position? I really dislike focusing on individual people, I’d rather look at memes. Can I guess at how many of the SEP’s articles on theism are not-obviously-insane and not just if-a-tree-falls debates? I think that question is much more interesting and informative. I’d say… like, 30%.
That’s what the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy calls it. Most biologists are mediocre at biology (many are creationists, God forbid!); that doesn’t mean we should call the thing that good biologists do by some other name. (If this is a poor analogy I don’t immediately see how, but it does have the aura of an overly leaky analogy.) If you asked “why reason in terms of theism instead of decision theory?” then I’d say “well we should obviously reason in terms of decision theory; I’d just prefer we not have undue contempt for an interesting memeplex that we’re not yet very familiar with”.
Biology is the repository of probable information left over after putting data and experiments through the sieve of peer review (the process is also “biology”). The more important ideas get parsed more. Mediocre enough biologists don’t add to biology.
Theology starts with a belief system and is the remnants that by their own lights theologians have not discarded. The process of discarding is also called theology. Unsophisticated people are likely to fail to see what is wrong with more of the original belief set than sophisticated ones, they don’t add to showing what is wrong with the belief pile. It isn’t a crazy analogy, but it’s not quite symmetrical.
To call this theism says more about the language than the beliefs you describe. Is the word closest in idea-space to this memeplex theism? OK, maybe, but it could have been “hunger for waffles and other, lesser breakfast foods” with a few adjustments to the history without adjusting anything at all about the ideas. These beliefs didn’t originate as the unfalsifiable part of an arbitrary cult focused on breakfast, as it happens.
an interesting memeplex
it’s interesting as the least easy to falsify, arguably unfalsifiable core of motivated, unjustified belief. It’s not interesting as something at all likely to be true.
it’s interesting as the least easy to falsify, arguably unfalsifiable core of motivated, unjustified belief. It’s not interesting as something at all likely to be true.
I disagree; certain ideas that theism originated are as likely to be true as certain ideas about decision theory are likely to be true, because they’re isomorphic.
You are reasoning from cached priors without bothering to recompute likelihood ratios (not like you’re actually looking at evidence at all; did you read the article on divine simplicity? Do you have a knockdown reason that I should ignore that debate other than “stupid people believe in God, therefore belief in God is stupid”?). You are ignoring evidence. “Ignore”: ignorance. You are ignorant about theism. That’s cool; you don’t have all the time in the world. But don’t confidently assert that something is not likely to be true when you clearly know very little about it. This is an important part of rationality.
Edit: In other words, you do not have magical inductive biases and you have seen significantly less evidence than I have. This should be more than enough to cause you to be hesitant.
You are ignorant about theism. That’s cool; you don’t have all the time in the world. But don’t confidently assert that something is not likely to be true when you clearly know very little about it. This is an important part of rationality.
You confidently assert my ignorance. That assertion is notable.
you have seen significantly less evidence than I have.
You’re much more confident of this than I am. You should be more hesitant.
Duly noted. Can we share a few representative reasons? What do you think I don’t already think you know about why “theism” (a word that may soon need to be tabooed) isn’t worth looking into?
I don’t see how that is the claim at issue. Most people are incompetent. That tells us little about what theism is. How would knowing the answer tell us anything useful about whether or not theism itself is or isn’t a tenable philosophical position? I really dislike focusing on individual people, I’d rather look at memes. Can I guess at how many of the SEP’s articles on theism are not-obviously-insane and not just if-a-tree-falls debates? I think that question is much more interesting and informative. I’d say… like, 30%.
Why call it “theism”?
That’s what the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy calls it. Most biologists are mediocre at biology (many are creationists, God forbid!); that doesn’t mean we should call the thing that good biologists do by some other name. (If this is a poor analogy I don’t immediately see how, but it does have the aura of an overly leaky analogy.) If you asked “why reason in terms of theism instead of decision theory?” then I’d say “well we should obviously reason in terms of decision theory; I’d just prefer we not have undue contempt for an interesting memeplex that we’re not yet very familiar with”.
Biology is the repository of probable information left over after putting data and experiments through the sieve of peer review (the process is also “biology”). The more important ideas get parsed more. Mediocre enough biologists don’t add to biology.
Theology starts with a belief system and is the remnants that by their own lights theologians have not discarded. The process of discarding is also called theology. Unsophisticated people are likely to fail to see what is wrong with more of the original belief set than sophisticated ones, they don’t add to showing what is wrong with the belief pile. It isn’t a crazy analogy, but it’s not quite symmetrical.
To call this theism says more about the language than the beliefs you describe. Is the word closest in idea-space to this memeplex theism? OK, maybe, but it could have been “hunger for waffles and other, lesser breakfast foods” with a few adjustments to the history without adjusting anything at all about the ideas. These beliefs didn’t originate as the unfalsifiable part of an arbitrary cult focused on breakfast, as it happens.
it’s interesting as the least easy to falsify, arguably unfalsifiable core of motivated, unjustified belief. It’s not interesting as something at all likely to be true.
I disagree; certain ideas that theism originated are as likely to be true as certain ideas about decision theory are likely to be true, because they’re isomorphic.
You are reasoning from cached priors without bothering to recompute likelihood ratios (not like you’re actually looking at evidence at all; did you read the article on divine simplicity? Do you have a knockdown reason that I should ignore that debate other than “stupid people believe in God, therefore belief in God is stupid”?). You are ignoring evidence. “Ignore”: ignorance. You are ignorant about theism. That’s cool; you don’t have all the time in the world. But don’t confidently assert that something is not likely to be true when you clearly know very little about it. This is an important part of rationality.
Edit: In other words, you do not have magical inductive biases and you have seen significantly less evidence than I have. This should be more than enough to cause you to be hesitant.
You confidently assert my ignorance. That assertion is notable.
You’re much more confident of this than I am. You should be more hesitant.
Duly noted. Can we share a few representative reasons? What do you think I don’t already think you know about why “theism” (a word that may soon need to be tabooed) isn’t worth looking into?