I suspect such visualisation is not a binary ability but a spectrum of “realness”, a skill you can be better or worse at. I don’t identify with your description fully, I wouldn’t call what my imagination does “entering the Matrix”, but in some ways it’s like actual sensory input, just much less intense.
I also observed this spectrum in my dreams—some are more vivid and detailed, some more like the waking level of imagination, and some remain mostly on the conceptual level.
I would very be interested to know if it’s possible to improve your imagination’s vividness by training.
What just came to my mind is what if those people who allegedly have a reduced ability to imagine realness actually have a heightened ability to experience reality? That is, what if what I describe as the ability to simulate what I experience consciously through sensory input while awake and engaging with my environment would be deemed as dull and abstract, not in any way corresponding to the reality you experience? The people who claim to be able to use their mind’s eye to resurrect the experienced and fantasize might simply have a very primitive ability to experience real-time sensory input and therefore put their rather abstract imagination on the same level.
I don’t know how we could overcome the boundary of subjective first-person experience with natural language here. If it is the case that human differ fundamentally in their perception of outside reality and inside imagination, then we might simply misunderstand each others definition and descriptions of certain concepts and eventually come up with the wrong conclusions.
A somewhat relevant quote:
“In psychology one may or may not be a behaviorist, but in linguistics one has no choice.”
—W.V. Quine
I have tried to come up with a personal technical language that precisely describes my nonlinguistic thoughts and the result is a mess. I also have a constructed language (WIP) that’s on hold while I learn Lojban. [Any Lojbanists around here?]
PS: Sorry about my low-quality posts. I’ll try to meet LW standards in due time. Until then I’ll read the blog and update my lingo.
I don’t know how we could overcome the boundary of subjective first-person experience with natural language here. If it is the case that human differ fundamentally in their perception of outside reality and inside imagination, then we might simply misunderstand each others definition and descriptions of certain concepts and eventually come up with the wrong conclusions.
While it does sound dangerously close to the “is my red like your red” problem, I think there is much that can be done before you leave the issue as hopelessly subjective. Your own example of being/not being able to visualise faces suggests that there are some points on which you can compare the experiences, so such heterophenomenological approach might give some results (or, more probably, someone already researched this and the results are available somewhere :) ).
I suspect such visualisation is not a binary ability but a spectrum of “realness”, a skill you can be better or worse at. I don’t identify with your description fully, I wouldn’t call what my imagination does “entering the Matrix”, but in some ways it’s like actual sensory input, just much less intense.
I also observed this spectrum in my dreams—some are more vivid and detailed, some more like the waking level of imagination, and some remain mostly on the conceptual level.
I would very be interested to know if it’s possible to improve your imagination’s vividness by training.
What just came to my mind is what if those people who allegedly have a reduced ability to imagine realness actually have a heightened ability to experience reality? That is, what if what I describe as the ability to simulate what I experience consciously through sensory input while awake and engaging with my environment would be deemed as dull and abstract, not in any way corresponding to the reality you experience? The people who claim to be able to use their mind’s eye to resurrect the experienced and fantasize might simply have a very primitive ability to experience real-time sensory input and therefore put their rather abstract imagination on the same level.
I don’t know how we could overcome the boundary of subjective first-person experience with natural language here. If it is the case that human differ fundamentally in their perception of outside reality and inside imagination, then we might simply misunderstand each others definition and descriptions of certain concepts and eventually come up with the wrong conclusions.
Reminds me of the most fascinating post, The Strangest Thing An AI Could Tell You.
A somewhat relevant quote: “In psychology one may or may not be a behaviorist, but in linguistics one has no choice.” —W.V. Quine
I have tried to come up with a personal technical language that precisely describes my nonlinguistic thoughts and the result is a mess. I also have a constructed language (WIP) that’s on hold while I learn Lojban. [Any Lojbanists around here?]
PS: Sorry about my low-quality posts. I’ll try to meet LW standards in due time. Until then I’ll read the blog and update my lingo.
mi milxe se slabu la lojban
While it does sound dangerously close to the “is my red like your red” problem, I think there is much that can be done before you leave the issue as hopelessly subjective. Your own example of being/not being able to visualise faces suggests that there are some points on which you can compare the experiences, so such heterophenomenological approach might give some results (or, more probably, someone already researched this and the results are available somewhere :) ).