For me, the breaking point occurred when I became a salesman. After about a month of rigorously working in that environment, it was just too easy to convince someone that an idea was true or false when it was beneficial for me to do so. Moreover, I realized that those same techniques were being used by my bosses on me.
I’d joked before about how easy it was to manipulate people, and I’d always cared about what was true (for as far back as I can remember, it was drilled in at a very early age) but that was the point where I stopped really caring about who “won” in an argument, because it broke “winning” down to rhetoric and manipulative technique. A few months later, I discovered LW, which helped break me of some bad beliefs I had at the time. But the shift from “winning arguments” to “finding truth” definitely happened when I got out of sales.
I realized that those same techniques were being used by my bosses on me.
I think it’s often true that when person X recommends you to use some manipulation technique on others, the person X is using the same technique on you. This is a good reason to avoid cooperation with dishonest people, even if you have no ethical concerns. Also known as: “There is no honor among thieves”.
(The implication does not work the other way; people usually use manipulation techniques without being explicit about them.)
For me, the breaking point occurred when I became a salesman. After about a month of rigorously working in that environment, it was just too easy to convince someone that an idea was true or false when it was beneficial for me to do so. Moreover, I realized that those same techniques were being used by my bosses on me.
I’d joked before about how easy it was to manipulate people, and I’d always cared about what was true (for as far back as I can remember, it was drilled in at a very early age) but that was the point where I stopped really caring about who “won” in an argument, because it broke “winning” down to rhetoric and manipulative technique. A few months later, I discovered LW, which helped break me of some bad beliefs I had at the time. But the shift from “winning arguments” to “finding truth” definitely happened when I got out of sales.
I think it’s often true that when person X recommends you to use some manipulation technique on others, the person X is using the same technique on you. This is a good reason to avoid cooperation with dishonest people, even if you have no ethical concerns. Also known as: “There is no honor among thieves”.
(The implication does not work the other way; people usually use manipulation techniques without being explicit about them.)