A rational, appropriately meta, abstract deconstruction of the probable biases, trustworthiness, and relevance of the top post. Pure and clean and correct.
But the opposing sides of the argument aren’t equal. The weight of bias isn’t symmetrical. One side is much more wrong than the other. The obvious next criticism is ‘reversed stupidity isn’t intelligence’. Of course we’d like all sides to be less wrong! But the propaganda isn’t symmetrical. The would-be theocrats have to distort more to make their case, because the truth isn’t on their side.
There probably is value in the book. I doubt it is perfectly clean or fair. But I doubt it is worthless.
But the opposing sides of the argument aren’t equal. The weight of bias isn’t symmetrical. One side is much more wrong than the other. [...] The would-be theocrats have to distort more to make their case, because the truth isn’t on their side.
Again, are you claiming this as an expert on the early U.S. history, or are you reasoning that since the “would-be theocrats” are further from the truth on contemporary issues, they must also be further from the truth about these historical controversies?
If the latter, it’s a huge fallacy. I haven’t studied this historical topic in-depth, but I have studied many others, some of which are commonly brought up in contemporary ideological controversies. In my experience, even in dispassionate topics it’s hard to avoid oversimplifying and caricaturing history and retrojecting modern attitudes and conflicts onto it—and when history is written for propaganda purposes, it’s overwhelmingly likely to be distorted and biased to the point of worthlessness, no matter who does it and whose case it’s supposed to advance. (This book might be an exception, for all I know, but what I object to is taking its value and accuracy for granted just based on ideological solidarity with the author.)
Not to mention that bringing up “theocrats” itself betrays a biased attitude. You may dislike the people in question and oppose their agenda, but “theocracy” is a reasonably well defined term in political theory, and what these people advocate doesn’t satisfy this definition. Throwing derogatory labels at people may be an effective PR tactic in some circumstances, but there is no good reason to do it here.
And again, your statement is well reasoned and well justified. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written in particular. My point was weak, I don’t hold it strongly, and I largely only wrote something in order to write something. To form a habit of participation.
You were right, I am reasoning that because they are further from the truth on contemporary issues (in facts, but especially in truth-gathering methods) they are further from the truth (and knowingly lying) about historical issues. I am no expert in US history and of the apparent topics in the book, I have only read at length about Jefferson. Having considered my fallacious reasoning, I see now how my conclusion was unfair. And yet I still doubt I’m wrong.
Gauche Gratuitously Googled Grounds for those that would-be: Would-be-theocrats. The would-be theocrats are a faction of the Christian right in the US, though they are not the largest or the most powerful.
A rational, appropriately meta, abstract deconstruction of the probable biases, trustworthiness, and relevance of the top post. Pure and clean and correct.
But the opposing sides of the argument aren’t equal. The weight of bias isn’t symmetrical. One side is much more wrong than the other. The obvious next criticism is ‘reversed stupidity isn’t intelligence’. Of course we’d like all sides to be less wrong! But the propaganda isn’t symmetrical. The would-be theocrats have to distort more to make their case, because the truth isn’t on their side.
There probably is value in the book. I doubt it is perfectly clean or fair. But I doubt it is worthless.
Again, are you claiming this as an expert on the early U.S. history, or are you reasoning that since the “would-be theocrats” are further from the truth on contemporary issues, they must also be further from the truth about these historical controversies?
If the latter, it’s a huge fallacy. I haven’t studied this historical topic in-depth, but I have studied many others, some of which are commonly brought up in contemporary ideological controversies. In my experience, even in dispassionate topics it’s hard to avoid oversimplifying and caricaturing history and retrojecting modern attitudes and conflicts onto it—and when history is written for propaganda purposes, it’s overwhelmingly likely to be distorted and biased to the point of worthlessness, no matter who does it and whose case it’s supposed to advance. (This book might be an exception, for all I know, but what I object to is taking its value and accuracy for granted just based on ideological solidarity with the author.)
Not to mention that bringing up “theocrats” itself betrays a biased attitude. You may dislike the people in question and oppose their agenda, but “theocracy” is a reasonably well defined term in political theory, and what these people advocate doesn’t satisfy this definition. Throwing derogatory labels at people may be an effective PR tactic in some circumstances, but there is no good reason to do it here.
And again, your statement is well reasoned and well justified. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written in particular. My point was weak, I don’t hold it strongly, and I largely only wrote something in order to write something. To form a habit of participation.
Your statements are a perfect example of the epistemic hygiene I wish to cultivate. But the perfect can be the enemy of the good.
You were right, I am reasoning that because they are further from the truth on contemporary issues (in facts, but especially in truth-gathering methods) they are further from the truth (and knowingly lying) about historical issues. I am no expert in US history and of the apparent topics in the book, I have only read at length about Jefferson. Having considered my fallacious reasoning, I see now how my conclusion was unfair. And yet I still doubt I’m wrong.
Gauche Gratuitously Googled Grounds for those that would-be: Would-be-theocrats. The would-be theocrats are a faction of the Christian right in the US, though they are not the largest or the most powerful.